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454 cylinder

This is a discussion on 454 cylinder within the Ruger Single Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; Originally Posted by SA45 45 COLT: I limit all 45 colt calibers to the 14k psi or SAAMI, why wouldnt I with so many 'other' ...


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Unread February 18th, 2020, 08:10 AM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA45 View Post
45 COLT:
I limit all 45 colt calibers to the 14k psi or SAAMI, why wouldnt I with so many 'other' better engineered options. Would add that I do not punish any fine Ruger or any other fine gun with excess heavy recoil, including where its not originally designed for it.
I have both original plowhandle and Bisley Super Blackhawk Hunters in 45 Colt. Rare birds, but by the name "Super Blackhawk Hunter" I assumed they were designed by Ruger for heavy hunting loads. Is my reasoning flawed somehow?

Hodgdon has "Ruger, Freedom Arms and T/C Only" loads for 45 Colt that go up above 30K PSI. I assumed Hodgdon would not publish unsafe loads that were not thoroughly tested. And if they were designed to be safe in Rugers in general, surely they are safe in a "Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter" NO? I know, lots of assumptions on my part, but are they unreasonable assumptions?

Be that as it may, I stay away from the top loads, keeping mine around 28K, and not feeding them a steady diet, only enough to check the load and sights periodically. I have stopped shooting the heavy loads in the plowhandle because the Bisley handles the recoil so much better. The plowhandle is superbly accurate with milder loads but when you get up near the top loads it becomes difficult to control and a bit uncomfortable to shoot.




Last edited by DrHenley; February 18th, 2020 at 08:15 AM.
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Unread February 18th, 2020, 08:38 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHenley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA45 View Post
45 COLT:
I limit all 45 colt calibers to the 14k psi or SAAMI, why wouldnt I with so many 'other' better engineered options. Would add that I do not punish any fine Ruger or any other fine gun with excess heavy recoil, including where its not originally designed for it.
I have both original plowhandle and Bisley Super Blackhawk Hunters in 45 Colt. Rare birds, but by the name "Super Blackhawk Hunter" I assumed they were designed by Ruger for heavy hunting loads. Is my reasoning flawed somehow? <img src="https://rugerforum.net/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" />

Hodgdon has "Ruger, Freedom Arms and T/C Only" loads for 45 Colt that go up above 30K PSI. I assumed Hodgdon would not publish unsafe loads that were not thoroughly tested. And if they were designed to be safe in Rugers in general, surely they are safe in a "Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter" NO? Yeah, I know, lots of assumptions on my part, but are they unreasonable assumptions?

Be that as it may, I stay away from the top loads, keeping mine around 28K, and not feeding them a steady diet, only enough to check the load and sights periodically. I have stopped shooting the heavy loads in the plowhandle because the Bisley handles the recoil so much better. The plowhandle is superbly accurate with milder loads but when you get up near the top loads it becomes difficult to control and a bit uncomfortable to shoot.
....just my 'current' personal particulars and practice, lots of additional intelligent use out there of course&#x1f609;.

Favorite revolvers are Rugers & FA, for strength & reliability in concert with accuracy.

Also, would add that another opinion I have is that its difficult to improve on original 45 colt & automatic colt calibers for its original purpose and use. We just use 45 Colt a great deal more with modern propellants/components/guns now and glad to have them.

Another personal opinion would not spend extra on rebuilding a fine Ruger for 'just' the purpose of extra power and psi headroom, they are plenty strong for what they are. Plus my experience, generally, Rugers are already very accurate handguns as is, with factory ammo but custom loads more so.
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Unread February 18th, 2020, 10:35 AM   #18
 
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No. Lots of problems with this.

The .45 cylinder is six-shot and the .454 is five-shot. So a revolver timed for one cannot use the other.

As noted, the .454 cylinder is made from a different material. I also believe the .454 cylinder is slightly longer.

Hypothetically, there would be no issue if the .454 cylinder was fitted to a Blackhawk. The only real difference at that point wold be the barrel material. Which is 15-5PH because of its greater resistance to erosion. You just can't have the same gun utilize both five and six shot cylinders.

If you REALLY wanted to do this, it would be best to buy a .454 and have a custom five-shot .45ACP cylinder made for it. Which would be far from cheap.
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Unread February 18th, 2020, 11:45 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
If you REALLY wanted to do this, it would be best to buy a .454 and have a custom five-shot .45ACP cylinder made for it. Which would be far from cheap.
I believe the OP was just wanting to shoot 45 Colt. What he really wants is a custom 5 shot 45 Colt cylinder made of the same steel as the Casull cylinders.
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Unread February 18th, 2020, 11:54 AM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
No. Lots of problems with this.
.......

If you REALLY wanted to do this, it would be best to buy a .454 and have a custom five-shot .45ACP cylinder made for it. Which would be far from cheap.
Have been considering this myself. Have not priced a Ruger cylinder for my 454 single action SBH Bisley, most likely a 3rd party custom cylinder maker would be needed.

45 acp is a nice option for less expensive 'accurate' factory target rounds when time is limited for reloading. Plus i would personally prefer reloading the rimmed cases for any use.

.... for my m83 gun, it would be about $485ish plus shipping.
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Unread February 18th, 2020, 01:48 PM   #21
 
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so just for kicks I just tried to see if in fact the cylinder from my .454 would drop in one of my .45 Blackhawks. I dose not fit! nor will it fit in a Vaquero.
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Unread February 18th, 2020, 06:37 PM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by tigger View Post
so just for kicks I just tried to see if in fact the cylinder from my .454 would drop in one of my .45 Blackhawks. I dose not fit! nor will it fit in a Vaquero.
Ruger cs couldn't answer my question and connected me to the tech. The tech seemed very knowledge about the subject and never stumbled for words. Very polite. Just goes to show that you need to get expert advice from someone you can trust. Iowegan has helped so many on here to better understand these subjects.
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Unread February 18th, 2020, 08:46 PM   #23
 
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I had a sort of similar story. I purchased a relatively early in production run of a smith 25-5 45 colt in the later 70s. The early ones were notorious for very loose cylinder throats. a 454 diameter bullet would fall thru the cylinder. My revolver would chamber 454 casull with no problem. I would not shoot it it was just to answer a curiosity of mine. Smith gave many owners including myself a new cylinder in more proper cyinder throat size.
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Unread February 20th, 2020, 03:32 PM   #24
 
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Google Ross Seyfried and Ruger .45 Bisley
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Unread February 20th, 2020, 04:50 PM   #25
 
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You might look at Mac Prosac books on the big bores. He has done more work with the big boomers than any of the current crop of gun writers and has chapters in his books with many comments from all the major players in big bore handguns. He comments that the 454 is perhaps the worst of all handgun calibers to master and has a picture of one that put a nasty cut in his head.

I have 3 44 mags and 4 regular 45 colts and one Bisley and have been loading for 45 years.

I also have the Rossi 454 model 92, my favorite lever of all times. In 454 is shoots a 300 grain bullet as fast as any I can shoot from my 1895 Marlin 45 70. Loaded in the 55,000 psi range, that 5.5 pound gun is not fun. The 454 will beat you up in that rifle and compared to the 45 Plus P I shoot in my Bisley, it is literally like 4 times the recoil. Hard to compare a rifle to a pistol, but people will shoot 6 rounds of plus P and smile. Most shoot 1 round of the 454 in the rifle and put it down. It is more than my 300 Wby and my 3.5 inch 12 gauge turkey loads.

Now, go on line and you can buy a 45 Colt Ruger cylinder for cheap, lots of used ones out there. So, shoot em hot and buy a spare if you think you will need one. Never heard of anyone wearing out a cylinder from factory legal ammo. Maybe the frame would stretch but not the cylinder. My 2 cents.
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Unread February 20th, 2020, 07:18 PM   #26
 
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Ruger makes a 6 chamber 454 cylinder? I thought they were all 5 shot.
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Unread February 27th, 2020, 09:01 AM   #27
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrb View Post
Ruger makes a 6 chamber 454 cylinder? I thought they were all 5 shot.
Yes, Ruger builds a very nice 6 shot, its one of my few double actions. The long barrel on mine is heavy but with my proper grip, balances well and with 300g Hornady factory ammo, very accurate too. Have handloaded up to 360g, with 4227 & hs6, and is great, I find it pleasant at the lower to moderate velocities as well. Have some 395g bullets but pretty sure have not tried them in this gun.

I still prefer 5 shot modern single-action guns in most of 45 calibers, especially 454. Can handload at alot of levels regardless as well as in just that case.

Upcoming project may be side by side tests between all of 454s here, at 75 to 150 yards (or more in some cases) using lower pressure but pleasant loads; perhaps Power Pistol, Unique, Bullseye, HS6, herco etc... may use a mechanical rest for 25 yard (at least) testing since planning on all 'low' recoil loads. Plus throw in some comparisons of acp & colt loads.

Would do what I can to match best loads to each gun with some aids around here, and will also compare SA to DA as well. These are things have always wanted to do at lower velocity but time may have been more limiting in past. Will take me awhile anyway am sure.

So, thinking initial comparisons would primarily be standard SA vs counter bored SA vs double action, at progressive distances. Just thinking out loud here, for perhaps thoughts too?

Last edited by SA45; February 27th, 2020 at 09:05 AM.
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Unread February 27th, 2020, 08:24 PM   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctrout View Post
If you want to shoot 454 Casull in your Ruger, send it to Gary Reeder for one of his customs. He will actually build it from any caliber since he changes both the cylinder and the barrel. I'll be getting mine made into the "Alaskan Hunter" when I finally find the right base gun to start with.
https://www.reedercustomguns.com/rev...an_Hunter.html
I spoke with Mr. Reeder on the phone. He said he would absolutely NOT build a six chamber cylinder for a 454. I guess the steel Ruger uses for 454's are a trade secret for them.
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