Carrying with hammer on empty chamber - Page 3 - Ruger Forum

Ruger Forum

Carrying with hammer on empty chamber

This is a discussion on Carrying with hammer on empty chamber within the Ruger Single Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; The best safety for any style of gun is still the one between your ears. I can honestly say I've never dropped my handgun, or ...


Go Back   Ruger Forum > Pistol & Revolver Forum > Ruger Single Action

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old August 17th, 2019, 05:14 PM   #31
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Butte, Montana
Posts: 5,461
rclark is a jewel in the roughrclark is a jewel in the roughrclark is a jewel in the roughrclark is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
The best safety for any style of gun is still the one between your ears.
I can honestly say I've never dropped my handgun, or any gun, on the ground or floor.
+1. I also can't recall that I have dropped a sixgun either with the exception of practicing spinning over a soft surface or some such activity with 'empty' guns....

Maybe I am the odd one out, but I have to understand how each gun I have can be handled safely. That is why I never considered the OM or an old Colt Peacemakers or Black Powder revolvers as 'evil'/'dangerous'/not safe' to use even though 'gasp' they don't have transfer bars.... It doesn't take much research to find and understand the concept of 'load one, skip one, load four more' and the 'why' this is so... or not rely on the hammer safety notch while riding in the holster. Obviously if you are riding into harms way (not likely in this day and age with a six shooter) there might be an exception where one more cartridge may make a difference. But today, if you can get it done in 5, a sixth probably isn't going to help.



rclark is offline  
Advertisements
Old August 18th, 2019, 01:51 PM   #32
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 243
Gearhead Jim is on a distinguished road
The thing I don't like about the Colt and OM guns is that carrying on an empty chamber is only a partial solution.

There are still problems with thumb slip, or a snagged hammer, or what to do if you cock the gun and then decide to not shoot. Handling all of those issues is no big deal in daylight at the range. But if it's dark or pouring rain or bouncing along on a horse or ATV, it becomes much more difficult.

I don't think that someone (like rclark) who understands the issues is foolish for carrying an OM, but I prefer the sure bet of a gun that can't fire unless I want it to.
Gearhead Jim is offline  
Old August 18th, 2019, 06:29 PM   #33
 
NitroAcres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: N. Georgia
Posts: 237
NitroAcres is on a distinguished road
You could carry it Empty, then there would be no worry at all...except loading it under duress when you need it..

Safety is the Grand Illusion.
NitroAcres is offline  
 
Old August 18th, 2019, 09:03 PM   #34
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: N.E. Ohio
Posts: 2,986
OrgLongHair is a jewel in the roughOrgLongHair is a jewel in the roughOrgLongHair is a jewel in the roughOrgLongHair is a jewel in the rough
I have several OM Single Six's that are not converted.
Did recently pick up an OM Flatgate that was in good shape but not Great shape and wanted other people to shoot it. It's a Great part of Ruger History.
Sent it in to Ruger and had a Transfer Bar installed. Now others can shoot it Safely. And I have peace of mind. But others say all you did was to devalue the firearm. I don't think so now anyone else can us it without explaining the process of load one and skip one and load four and let the hammer down on the empty chamber. No matter how many times you tell someone this and show them They still don't catch on.
And yes I'm the only one to shoot the unconverted Old Model's.
OrgLongHair is offline  
Old August 19th, 2019, 10:38 AM   #35
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
 
Iowegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CB, IA
Posts: 15,408
Iowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud of

Awards Showcase

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words so here's a 1000 words:



The photo shows a New Model Blackhawk hammer on the right, an origional Old Model Blackhawk hammer in the center, and a Old Model transfer bar conversion Blackhawk hammer on the left. All three have the same very small sear notch at the bottom. You will see both OM hammers have a half cock notch but the NM doesn't. You may also note …. the origional OM hammer is the only one with a safety notch. The OM transfer bar hammer has a large area that is machined out allowing the conversion to accommodate a transfer bar without modifying the revolver's frame. The OM transfer bar hammer and the NM hammers have a top step and second step on the face but the origional OM hammer has a flat face. Why the differences?

Factory origional Old Models have five distinctive safety issues where the revolver may go off unintentionally …. (1) bumping a hammer or (2) dropping the gun with a loaded round under the firing pin, (3) snagging the hammer, even when there was an empty chamber under the firing pin. A transfer bar conversion fixes these significant issues, plus it also fixes a (4) broken safety notch because the safety notch was eliminated in transfer bar OM hammers. The new design allows the hammer's top step to rest on the frame instead of relying on a fragile safety notch or an empty chamber. NM and OM transfer bars are coupled directly to the trigger so when the trigger is pulled, the transfer bar will raise and cover the rear of the firing pin, thus allowing the gun to fire ONLY WHEN THE TRIGGER IS PULLED. The steps in the conversion and NM hammer allow the top step to rest on the frame whereas the lower step is what strikes the transfer bar and in turn, the firing pin.

That leaves one other issue …. (5) "thumb slip" when loading. If you operate an OM exactly the way Ruger's very poor instructions indicate, you DON'T pull the hammer all the way back after loading, you merely pull the hammer back far enough to clear the half cock notch then ease it down. This procedure indexes the cylinder where the firing pin rests between chambers. Ruger's procedure makes it safe to carry all 6 chambers loaded, however most people will use the old 1873 Colt ingrained procedure of fully cocking the hammer to index the cylinder, then lowering it on an empty chamber. This old Colt procedure is confusing to some people and also requires good thumb strength and full concentration, which makes it potentially dangerous. Should your thumb slip while lowering the hammer, you could hear a loud BANG unless there was an empty chamber under the firing pin.

No amount of "safety between the ears" will fix a broken safety notch nor will it keep Murphy from doing his bad deeds …. like letting a hammer slip from your thumb or dropping a loaded gun.

Ruger's New Model design has an "interlock" with the hammer and loading gate. You can't cock the hammer when the loading gate is open and you can't open the loading gate when the hammer is cocked. NMs load with the hammer fully forward, which eliminates "thumb slip" when loading and uses the interlock as a dumbasspreventer. I truly believe New Model Ruger SAs are the safest single action revolvers on the market and non-converted Old Models and Colt SAAs were the most dangerous SAs ever made. Hospital Emergency Room and Courtroom statistics support my statement.

Last edited by Iowegan; August 19th, 2019 at 10:42 AM.
Iowegan is offline  
Old August 20th, 2019, 09:04 AM   #36
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 82
reteach is on a distinguished road
Iowegan - excellent tutorial.

I'm thoroughly convinced that leaving an empty chamber under the hammer is the safe thing to do. But in the interest of educating myself, I'm trying to figure out the method of loading an Old Model where the hammer rests between chambers. I have an OM Blackhawk and an OM Single Six. With both of them, when I ease the hammer down from half cock, it does rest between chambers, but the cuylinder doesn't lock there. It only takes a slight touch on the cylinder to turn it, with the hammer down, to the indexed position, hammer lined up with a chamber. From what I can see, that's still not a safe way to carry the loaded gun. If I stuffed it into a holster, the cylinder could easily turn into place. An unsafe place, that is.

So am I missing something in the instructions or is that yet another design issue that makes it unsafe to carry fully loaded?

Thanks to everyone for the input.
reteach is offline  
Old August 20th, 2019, 11:14 AM   #37
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
 
Iowegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CB, IA
Posts: 15,408
Iowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud of

Awards Showcase

reteach, There's a "missing link", meaning Ruger's procedure requires leaving the hammer at the full forward position, not in the safety notch. This will make the firing pin protrude far enough where is locates between the edges of case rims and prevents the cylinder from rotating unless it is forced. In fact if you wiggle the loaded cylinder a little after lowering the hammer, you should feel a distinctive click when the firing pin is positioned between chambers. If your OM has the transfer bar mod, it won't work because the top step on the hammer face prevents contact with the firing pin so it doesn't protrude. If you pull the hammer back to the safety notch, it won't work because the firing pin does not protrude from the recoil shield. Also, if your gun has worn to a point where it has excessive headspace or cylinder end shake, the Ruger procedure may not work properly. Further, if you don't have cartridges or spent cases loaded, this procedure will not work because it depends on the case rim contact with the firing pin to prevent the cylinder from rotating.

Last edited by Iowegan; August 20th, 2019 at 11:22 AM.
Iowegan is offline  
Old August 20th, 2019, 06:42 PM   #38
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 82
reteach is on a distinguished road
Quote:
depends on the case rim contact with the firing pin to prevent the cylinder from rotating.
That was it. No modification of either of the OMs and wasn't using the safety notch. I was trying it with an empty cylinder. I tried it with snap caps and it worked like you described.

I don't plan to carry the OM like that, but it's good to know that if I ever have to go into that canyon after those rustlers, I can load another round. Thanks.
reteach is offline  
Old August 20th, 2019, 08:30 PM   #39
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
 
Iowegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CB, IA
Posts: 15,408
Iowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud ofIowegan has much to be proud of

Awards Showcase

reteach, Glad you figured it out! Gotta watch out for those rustlers in the canyon, ya know.
Iowegan is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2019, 11:57 AM   #40
 
Steelburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 42
Steelburner is on a distinguished road
This is a design challenge that both Colt and Remington faced in the cap-and-ball days. Colt addressed it by making their cylinders with a small steel pin protruding between each chamber. You could lower the hammer BETWEEN chambers and the pin would socket into a matching hole on the face of the hammer. Remington addressed it by having a notch between each chamber to hold the hammer foot.

Those were good ideas; but even in those days folks didn't read the instructions (the same as today) and ignored the features, both of which worked just fine. If you used them.

As a result, six-guns were mostly five-guns. Those who defied the odds and carried six loaded cylinders and ignored the provided hammer-locks were the forefathers of Murphy's Law and the Darwin Awards. Oops-bang-thud.
Steelburner is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2019, 07:54 PM   #41
 
wproct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,420
wproct is on a distinguished road
Boy I like to read Iowegan's comments on this subject. I love to hear the action sing on the old original 3 screw Rugers, but this really makes me appreciate the safety of the New Model single action Rugers!
wproct is offline  
Old December 4th, 2019, 10:28 AM   #42
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: central CA
Posts: 13
mannyCA is on a distinguished road
I've always carried under an empty chamber with my three-screw.
mannyCA is offline  
Reply

  Ruger Forum > Pistol & Revolver Forum > Ruger Single Action

None


Search tags for this page

hammer on empty chamber gp100

,

is it safe to carry a ruger gp100 on a live chamber

,

ruger firearms with hammer

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Top Gun Sites Top Sites List
Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2006 - 2020 Ruger Forum. All rights reserved.
Ruger Forum is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT.