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Ruger PCC 9mm, sighting in & 200 yards

This is a discussion on Ruger PCC 9mm, sighting in & 200 yards within the Ruger Semi-Auto forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; I have two sets of questions. 1) For home defense purposes, what's a way to sight in the Ruger PCC for the simplest operation? (No ...


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Old March 1st, 2020, 09:18 PM   #1
 
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Ruger PCC 9mm, sighting in & 200 yards

I have two sets of questions.

1) For home defense purposes, what's a way to sight in the Ruger PCC for the simplest operation? (No thinking about holdovers at all.) I've used a laser boresighter and measured the distance between the axis of my red dot and the bore axis to be 1.75". Buffalo Outdoors latest video, he had it zeroed at 100 yards, and he was hitting about 2" high at 50 yards. So I figure if I sighted in my rifle to exactly at 100 yards, I shouldn't have to think about holdovers at all out to 50 yards. Does anyone have experience doing this?

2) How practical is it to shoot targets out to 200 yards?

I saw a chart for bullet drop on mcarbo, and they were getting 53 inches of drop at 200 yards out of a Sub-2000 with a 16" barrel. And yet, I keep on reading about people hitting targets out to 200 yards with a PC Carbine online.

(It's on mcarbo dot com under 9mm-trajectory-chart-vs-40-s-w-trajectory-chart.aspx)

American Rifleman tested a PC Carbine, and it got over 2000 FPS out of a 65 grain lead-free round.

(Date is 2018/1/2, search for tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol)

Anyone have any experience shooting out to 200 yards with a PC Carbine?



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Old March 2nd, 2020, 02:52 AM   #2
 
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I have an original PC9 and PC4, have never shot them that far but thinking outside the box why not?

The purpose (at least for me) of target shooting is to relax and vent off stress, so if trying something like a 200 yard shot once again why not?
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Old March 2nd, 2020, 04:10 AM   #3
 
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You need to think about at what ranges you're going to be using the rifle in home defense. If you zero close (and the sight has enough adjustment) say at 10 yds you will still have hold over at ranges closer than 10yds BUT you will have significant hold under past that range. For me, this doesn't work.

How often are you going to shoot past 50yds? If you zero it at 50 all you will have to do is use hold over at home defense ranges. No hold unders at those ranges. Much simpler.

You can eliminate some of the hold over by switching to open sights or mounting a relfex sight closer to the bore of the rifle.

There are always two times when the bullet passes through the Line Of Sight. One is close and the other is far. The distance between these two depends on the ballistics of the round you're shooting. My guess is that a 50 yd close zero will give you a second past 100yds. Get or find a ballistics program and run the numbers. For me, shooting a 9mm at 200yds would be just for fun. This would be especially true if I was using a dot and not a scope. Not enough precision in the dot vs a magnified scope.

Last edited by ScottMn; March 2nd, 2020 at 04:17 AM.
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Old March 2nd, 2020, 04:37 AM   #4
 
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I don't ever plan to shoot my PC9 farther than self defense range. If I need to make a longer shot, the AR15 gets the job.

My PC9 is set up for home defense. It has a white light and a SIG Romeo red dot. The red dot is for quick targeting.
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Old March 2nd, 2020, 12:06 PM   #5
 
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The mcarbro trajectory chart has a 25 yard zero for all cases. From a 16" barrel (aka a PC Carbine) a 9 mm is 0.1" high at 10 yards and less than 3/4" low at 40 yards. Those rise and fall numbers are absolutely negligible in a typical home defense situation and there is no need to holdover or under unless your house is as big as a railway station.
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Old March 3rd, 2020, 08:02 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP Fan View Post
The mcarbro trajectory chart has a 25 yard zero for all cases. From a 16" barrel (aka a PC Carbine) a 9 mm is 0.1" high at 10 yards and less than 3/4" low at 40 yards. Those rise and fall numbers are absolutely negligible in a typical home defense situation and there is no need to holdover or under unless your house is as big as a railway station.
I am familiar with the chart you are referencing but there is absolutely no way those numbers represent reality. First of all they call the numbers in the chart "drop" but it is actually a windage elevation chart for bullet trajectory. They are not the same.

For a rifle with an offset of 1.75" between the line of sight (LOS) and the bore axis, at contact range a sight picture would obviously result in a point of impact more than 1 1/2" low. The only way one could achieve a POI .01" above the line of sight at 10 yards would be to zero the sights for a very large angle of elevation of the bore to the line of sight, for example a "near zero" at 9 1/2 yards so that the trajectory would first be crossing the LOS just short of 10 yards.

With that type of zero with the typical 124 grain 9 mm Luger cartridge your true zero or far zero is going to be out somewhere around 120 yards where the bullet would cross the LOS the second time. Maximum ordinate for such a zero, cartridge, and sight height would be 5" above the LOS at around 66 yards.

With 115 grain ammo the far zero would be just about the same but the max ordinate rise above LOS would be slightly more.

If one accounts for the higher muzzle velocities one might expect from a 16" barrel, the same near zero and sight height would give the trajectory a bit higher arc. The true zero would now be out around 135 yards and the maximum ordinate would be about 6" above LOS at around 75 yards.

With a sight offset of 1.75" one will have to deal with some degree of holdover for a precise hit at very short ranges. One can reduce the holdover slightly by zeroing at a very short range, but then one will have to hold under (hold forward) by an even greater amount at plausible self-defense ranges beyond the near zero point.

If a PCC is to be used for self-defense I would suggest a zero somewhere in the 40-50 yard range. If one looks at the ballistics for Federal 124 grain HST for example, given a sight height of 1.75", standard atmospheric conditions, and bumping the expected muzzle velocity up by 100 fps to account for the longer barrel, a zero at 50 yards would result in a near zero at around 28 yards. From 20 yards all the way out to nearly 60 yards the trajectory would be quite flat, with a POI within one caliber (bullet width) of the LOS at all points. At 6 yards and at 70 yards one would have to deal with about 1.2" of holdover, which is quite manageable. POI at 100 yards would be just over 5" below LOS.

I would not consider a 9 mm pistol caliber carbine a reasonable choice for a self-defense firearm at a range of 200 yards, assuming that there would ever be a justifiable reason to shoot in self defense at that range. At 200 yards with a 50 yard zero you would be dealing with a POI below LOS of over 40 inches. Assuming you could adjust for this, the bullet would be dropping like a rock, so even a relatively small miscalculation in range would dramatically impact the POI. The projectile will have pretty low kinetic energy at that point, and very low momentum. A JHP round may well fail to expand.

Could you lob a 9 mm Luger projectile in at 200 yards known range and make a hole in paper? Sure.
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Old Today, 03:54 PM   #7
 
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I've shot my 9mm carbine at 100 yards ...pretty easy to hit a standard 100 yard NRA target with some practice. 200 yards, would be a lot tougher! You might hit the target, but not be accurate at all........Good Luck
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