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This is a discussion on Looking to talk to PC9 owners within the Ruger Semi-Auto forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; Originally Posted by Angry Hippo Can you expand on this? I am not trying to answer a question for the author but my interpretation on ...


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Old November 3rd, 2019, 03:25 PM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Hippo View Post
Can you expand on this?
I am not trying to answer a question for the author but my interpretation on that is by having guns using the same caliber and mag, if one gun or mag fails, you have interchangeable backups. Also, if you have both on you during the search you have mobility with the handgun, accuracy for the longer shot.



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Old November 4th, 2019, 04:59 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Hippo View Post
Can you expand on this? I can see how if you lived in a magazine round limited state it might be nice to have all your magazines be identical in case you had to fire more than 10+1 shots... but if you can pop a 30 round magazine in your rifle how likely are you to really need an extra? And how likely are you to need more than one additional magazine?

If even if you had say a G19 or G17 sitting on your nightstand, I'm not certain a 9mm PCC with a 33 round glock big stick magazine tucked in it would really offer you any advantage over an ar-15 with a 30/40 round magazine.

The only advantage I might see is if your PCC was somehow disabled, you could use the magazines intended for that PCC in your handgun. But even then... a G19 has 15+1 rounds... Are you really going to run dry?

My vote for best use for PCC? Truck/Car gun, particularly if you CCW with a compatible duty size pistol and extra magazines. That way you have ammo on you ready to go - especially in states where you can't transport a longarm while loaded.
Starting out with a PCC and then later purchasing a same cal handgun has many benefits that increases home security.
The first one I can think of is the handgun is concealable...less obvious that you are prepared to defend which may prevent unnecessary harm. Sure you could go with any other larger caliber handgun but the comment was ďassumingĒ the PCC was a first firearm purchase...and opens the door to another firearm purchase.

The interchangeable magazines is a plus if one firearm malfunctions or is lost.

Ease of aiming accurately at longer distance with a PCC is a big plus.

If I have to pass either gun to a family member it is convenient that they might know how to handle the same ammo.

As the PCC caliber size goes up..say 40 cal or 10mm, the damage effect increases.

Living in the country with livestock to protect from bears and coyotes I can see how having a handgun and carbine same caliber makes sense...and that 15+1 rounds might not be enough.
I donít like the 33 round big sticks...hangs down way to far for me in the woods/brush...or in the house.

In the end I canít think of any reason to NOT have a handgun and PCC that use the same magazines/ammo!..and itís FUN!
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Old November 4th, 2019, 05:56 AM   #18
 
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I suppose that makes sense if one magazine fails that you have another compatible one nearby... and if you are using a gear carrier it's one less extra item you need on the vest. Still, those seem like negligible advantages in the context of home defense on a small property.

I must say I have a hard time seeing myself being like, "schucks, this crook/badguy/beast needs to get shot RIGHT NOW - but oh no - my weapon is malfunctioning! Let me grab my magazine from my other weapon and put it in my jammed weapon" - rather than just doing a NY reload by using my other weapon without a malfunction.

I also think that if I'm in a situation that is going so poorly that I not only am firing my weapon, but finding that I need to switch to another, I probably am going to want as much firepower as I can get. Obviously you can still put lethal fire downrange with a 9mm PCC going 1300FPS, but I don't think you're going to get nearly as many one hit stops as compared to a .30 cal traveling at 2000+ FPS or a .223 cal going 2700+. If the lead is flying in my home, one hit stops are something I am going to highly prioritize.

Also worth noting that PCC's will be much more unlikely to penetrate soft body armor, whereas most rifle loadings will have little or no problem.

I suppose if someone was looking at a 'first' firearm that they were intent on using both at the range and for home defense - and on a budget - that a PCC might make sense. Probably easier and more comfortable to get a handle on and cheaper to use than a centerfire rifle. Of course if you go in the larger calibers like 40 or 10mm you lose most/all of the ammo savings of a PCC.

The kicker is that you can probably afford BOTH a 12 gauge and a 22lr for the same price as a PCC (lowest price I saw for the Ruger PCC was 420+ tax, transfer and background check)... and IMO you'd have a much more versatile set up at a lower price point for ammo and the weapons.

Edit: Actually, on further thought... A Hi-point 9mm pistol + carbine would probably come in pretty darn cheap and provide someone with a lot of choices for home defense. Probably less than 500 bucks for both if you shopped around. The thing is then you have to tell someone to buy a hi-point... If you're looking at Beretta, Ruger, or Kel-Tec offerings you're looking at close to a grand or more once you add a pistol. At that price point you just open up so many better options than a PCC.

Last edited by Angry Hippo; November 4th, 2019 at 07:22 AM.
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Old November 4th, 2019, 09:50 AM   #19
 
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If you prioritize one shot stops, a 12 gauge shotgun is the way to go. Unfortunately, it comes with much more limited magazine capacity and considerably greater recoil than a .223/5.56x45. If you get a solid hit at short range with a 12 gauge loaded with #4 to 00 buckshot, the attacker will almost certainly go down. With a handgun or a rifle chambered in 5.56 the attacker may well go down, but there is considerably less certainty.

I wouldn't buy a Hi-Point 9 mm pistol caliber carbine for self-defense. I have a TS995 and while it is a fun carbine to shoot, it has had too many malfunctions for me to consider it to be reliable. I find the controls awkward to use and the magazine capacity is quite limited. Apart from the Red Ball 20 round magazine, which sticks awkwardly way out of the carbine, is a snag waiting to happen, and pretty much precludes shooting from a usual prone position, you are stuck using the 10 round Hi-Point magazines which I have found to be very spotty in quality.
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Old November 4th, 2019, 06:58 PM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8vmdpath View Post
(PCC in 9mm....PC9 was a completely different gun..so advise using proper nomenclature)
Point taken. Thank you.
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Old November 4th, 2019, 07:41 PM   #21
 
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Always good to get Mr. Harrells opinion on carrying the same caliber pistol and carbine. You be the judge!:

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Old November 5th, 2019, 05:33 AM   #22
 
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My judgement is that while Mr. Harrel showed a variety of reasons to advocate for a carbine + pistol combo - most of the reasons were not particularly relevant in the context of small home defense (as opposed to a ranch) - particularly for budget minded purchasers/users.

I base my poo-pooing of the PCC for personal defense partly based on sources (including Paul Harrel) that suggest you are super unlikely to need many rounds at all in a defensive shooting.

If you accept the premise that you're highly unlikely to require even a full magazine of ammo in self defense - the relative utility of your weapons sharing magazines drops substantially. If you in all likelyhood won't even shoot enough to change mags, what benefit does marginally more convenient mag changes truly give you?

Mr. Harrell phrased it well in a comparison he made in a different video regarding capacity as it related to hunting. He compared the number of times having a 2nd shot was valuable (quite a few), and then a 3rd (less) - and then a 4th. And each round higher was substantially less useful on average than the one prior. by the time he came to 5 or 6 (memory fails me) he said he had benefited from that 6th round exactly zero times in his personal experience.

So when I measure the relative utility of having an extra magazine that also matches a pistol and then weigh that versus the other compromises I make by choosing a 9mm PCC over a different platform the calculus doesn't come out ahead in the PCC's favor.

The calculus is especially poor if you add in the fact I, personally, am probably much more likely to be wearing a bathrobe than a holster while at home. I'm unlikely to even have the ability to carry extra ammo or my pistol on my person - nor can I envision a scenario where I strap my PCC over my back while I move forward with a pistol.
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Old November 5th, 2019, 06:50 AM   #23
 
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As a home defense weapon, the Ruger PC Carbine is short and handy enough that it won't be any more difficult to maneuver around your house than any shotgun and a lot easier than most. It, of course, won't be as handy as a handgun but will be easier to hit with in a stress situation.

I agree that huge magazine capacity is comforting but realistically unnecessary in almost any home defense scenario unless you are faced with a "Night of the Living Dead" invasion.

As to "long range capability" for home use, unless you live in an aircraft hanger or a converted K-Mart, any shot over 50' is almost a non-issue.
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Old November 5th, 2019, 09:14 PM   #24
 
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My reasons for going one caliber/one magazine system was budgetary and convenience.

Without a doubt, my handgun is my HD first choice. The PC Carbine fills the niche for a bug out weapon with a little more reach if I need it. I don’t live on the wide open plains or out in the sticks. I think a PCC will be just fine for my suburban and urban bug out needs.
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