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Buffer at the rear of the action?

This is a discussion on Buffer at the rear of the action? within the Ruger Semi-Auto forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; I ran into another Ruger Mini-14 enthusiast now granted he is an older gentlemen and a Vietnam Vet. We were talking MINI'S and he said ...


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Old April 24th, 2018, 03:42 PM   #1
 
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Buffer at the rear of the action?

I ran into another Ruger Mini-14 enthusiast now granted he is an older gentlemen and a Vietnam Vet. We were talking MINI'S and he said something about putting a buffer behind the action right where one would put their shooting/firing hand did I misunderstand him or did I learn something new from a old timer? He said it was something WW2 vets did on the Garand and he was in Vietnam early on with the M-14 and they did the same thing of course they cut their own from rubber tires, inner tubes etc.




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Old April 24th, 2018, 04:08 PM   #2
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You heard pretty much correctly. Can't speak to Garands, but they're pretty close. I run a buffer - designed for a 1911 pistol - at both ends of the operating rod: one around the gas pipe up front, and one around the recoil spring where the recoil spring connects with the receiver. They certainly change the nature of the cycling! For the better. I do that on both my old (circa 1977) 181 and my current 583. Nice easy upgrade, 100% reversible, and inexpensive. There is a whole following of Mini folks who toy with various materials (me included), but the standard Wilson 1911 buffer works well on both ends. I have used vinyl floor boards and garage door gaskets and they work well. Several swear by vacuum cleaner belts and some with old leather from belts or welders' gloves, soaked in oil. The whole idea is to eliminate the metal-to-metal slamming, so it doesn't take much. The path of least resistance are the 1911 buffers, but where's the fun in that???
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Old April 24th, 2018, 04:37 PM   #3
 
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Well, you learned about something. As an "older gentlemen and a Vietnam Vet" myself, I do know what he's talking about. I never much cared about them and don't hear much about them these days.

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Old April 24th, 2018, 06:01 PM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJF View Post
You heard pretty much correctly. Can't speak to Garands, but they're pretty close. I run a buffer - designed for a 1911 pistol - at both ends of the operating rod: one around the gas pipe up front, and one around the recoil spring where the recoil spring connects with the receiver. They certainly change the nature of the cycling! For the better. I do that on both my old (circa 1977) 181 and my current 583. Nice easy upgrade, 100% reversible, and inexpensive. There is a whole following of Mini folks who toy with various materials (me included), but the standard Wilson 1911 buffer works well on both ends. I have used vinyl floor boards and garage door gaskets and they work well. Several swear by vacuum cleaner belts and some with old leather from belts or welders' gloves, soaked in oil. The whole idea is to eliminate the metal-to-metal slamming, so it doesn't take much. The path of least resistance are the 1911 buffers, but where's the fun in that???
I run the same thing you do on both ends of the op rod on my 582 series he was talking about toward the back end of the receiver near the comb of the stock? I never heard of that or we had a mis understanding of terms. he did tell me agent orange was eating him up and he had a couple of heart attacks in the last couple of years. Could have been confused a little we all get old and that sucks he was showing me some pics on his phone of a 10 point buck he killed last fall with a 55 grn soft point he had a 580 series with a non tapered 18" barrel with a burris scope. shot it right in the neck at about 150 yards.

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Old April 25th, 2018, 08:12 AM   #5
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TENN, not familiar with using buffers anywhere other than on opposite ends to the op-rod. It may be the Garand's design allowed for that, but I would think there would be an accuracy impact (perhaps small) if the receiver is cushioned from the stock. My Marlin 99M1 (.22LR) has a nylon buffer for the rearward action of the bolt - but that is integral in the receiver - but nothing I've seen buffering the receiver from the stock. That would seem to negate things like bedding a stock...

May God bless your friend both as a person and for his service to our nation. My oldest brother has some Agent Orange challenges, but nothing like that.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 09:28 AM   #6
 
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I was thinking it may be because my friend has a factory wood stock on his and I have a Hogue stock on mine.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 03:30 PM   #7
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TENN, don't think so...

form, fit, and function is the same. Don't own a Hogue stock, but several others and I don't see a place where a buffer between the stock and the receiver would work - or even fit!
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Old April 25th, 2018, 03:38 PM   #8
 
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Probably just a misunderstanding then.
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Old April 26th, 2018, 08:31 AM   #9
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Probably just a misunderstanding then.
Probably right. Hope your friend is doing okay. Don't ever pass up an opportunity asking him of his recollections: they are both informative and result in their recalling happier times - whether or not their recollections are 100% accurate. Good therapy for both!
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Old April 26th, 2018, 07:02 PM   #10
 
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WILL DO!
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Old April 29th, 2018, 11:12 PM   #11
 
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Not to hijack your post but could someone explain or give a link to this 1911 bushing ? How does it help ect..
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Old April 30th, 2018, 08:03 AM   #12
 
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The buffers prevent metal to metal contact and the harsh slamming that entails.
Wilson 1911 buffers work so well, it's like they were designed for Mini's instead of 1911's.
These buffers are a good thickness to work flawlessly with most Mini's. Some won't like a full thickness Wilson buffer, for those you can slice them so they are half as thick.
Too thick of a buffer increases the chance that the op rod isn't seated fully down on the gas pipe, or at the other end, that the op-rod and bolt will travel fully to the rear to cock the hammer and be able to pick up the next round.
I've always thinned my buffers for piece of mind, as well as making the buffers go further, as I have twice as many after thinning. But to be honest, when I've tried using full thickness buffers I've had no problems.
Wilson buffers can be ordered from Midway USA, Brownell's, or off Amazon.
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Old April 30th, 2018, 11:23 AM   #13
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Un:
What Sandog said! Buffers are kinda like the difference between metal (or wooden) wheels on very early cars versus pneumatic tires of today (or a rubber grip on a ball-peen hammer versus straight steel). Smoother ride and reduces the wear and tear of the vehicle (or Mini in this case). In physics terms, it is a function of "moment" - how sharp the impact of the op-rod is with the receiver/gas-block. Buffers are much like shock absorbers in our cars.

I run them fore-and-aft on both my Minis: an early 181, and a current 583. Difference of night and day with felt recoil and overall joy, and - particularly with the front buffer, may help with survival of an optic, since many are designed for the rearward shock/recoil, but not the forward shock as the op-rod slams into the gas block. Air-gun rated optics usually work well for Minis because of this; otherwise, Minis do have a reputation as "scope killers" because of the forward shock. Front buffers fix that problem usually.

As a starter:
https://www.amazon.com/Tacbro-Pistol...=ABLYQTM6AUNUI

https://www.amazon.com/1911-Shok-Buf...ds=1911+buffer

Plenty on Amazon, just search Amazon for "1911 Buffer". Also available at Brownells, MidwayUSA, and a gazillion other sites.

I have some of both of the above links, but I also like to "roll my own" using various things around the shop/farm, such as old leather belts, garage door gaskets, vinyl baseboard, etc. Some swear by certain vacuum cleaner belts but - in most cases - "why bother"??? The 1911 buffers are inexpensive and convenient and work well. Still, it's fun to tinker...Oil-soaked leather is probably the best for the front buffer because of the slicer/dicer lip at the front of the current op-rods, but smoothing out the sharp edges helps with the wear/tear of a front buffer, as COSteve can testify.

There have been some postings about concerns of whether or not a front buffer will keep the bolt from fully locking. Simple check: with the weapon empty, slowly pull back the charging handle. Make note on how far rearward it travels before the bolt starts to engage and unlock. I think you'll find it is a fair amount of travel. If you install a standard 1911 buffer in the front, you should still have some rearward travel before the bolt engages with the op rod and un-locks. If not, then re-consider and perhaps go with a slimmer buffer, or none at all (bummer!); but I think most will find that there is a fair amount of rearward travel of the op-rod before the bolt starts disengaging from the lugs - even with a buffer.

Most don't have challenges with the rear buffer, but should there be a challenge with the bolt holding to the rear with the last round (or not stripping off the next round from the magazine), the rear buffer could be to blame, although unlikely. Making it thinner would probably fix whatever problem there might be.

Tinkering with our Minis is so much fun!
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 12:00 PM   #14
 
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Question 1911 buffer thickness ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandog View Post
The buffers prevent metal to metal contact and the harsh slamming that entails.
Wilson 1911 buffers work so well, it's like they were designed for Mini's instead of 1911's.
These buffers are a good thickness to work flawlessly with most Mini's. Some won't like a full thickness Wilson buffer, for those you can slice them so they are half as thick.
Too thick of a buffer increases the chance that the op rod isn't seated fully down on the gas pipe, or at the other end, that the op-rod and bolt will travel fully to the rear to cock the hammer and be able to pick up the next round.
I've always thinned my buffers for piece of mind, as well as making the buffers go further, as I have twice as many after thinning. But to be honest, when I've tried using full thickness buffers I've had no problems.
Wilson buffers can be ordered from Midway USA, Brownell's, or off Amazon.
sandog
I have a new mini 14 tac. S/S on the way and want to install Wilson buffers front & rear, How do you go about slicing these buffers to reduce thickness? Does the front buffer just slip over the gas piston?
Thanks
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Old July 22nd, 2018, 03:52 PM   #15
 
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Yes, the front one goes over the gas pipe all the way.
This one is no longer blue, as it's been in there for a few hundred ones. A bit charred, but still pliable and rubbery. Slid out to the end of the gas pipe for the photo.
When they get hard and brittle I replace them.

I was surprised to see a full thickness buffer in there, as I've run just half thickness ones for a couple years now. I don't remember putting the thick one in there, but it worked fine.

You might have to do the "Harris Mod" when you get your SSTactical.
Sometimes that lip jutting out on the end of the op-rod will tear up your buffer in short order. And guys have removed that ridge to help that issue.

I haven't done anything to the front of my op-rod. My buffers get trashed from heat and gasses, and become black and brittle, but haven't got torn up from a rough op-rod end, yet.

I first tried to put one half of the buffer in a vise, or vise grips, and slice one down with a new blade in a utility knife. It wandered and my resulting two buffers were not very even in thickness. That Wilson polymer is some tough stuff.

I then tried using one of these little Dremel bits that looks like a tiny SkilSaw blade.
Zip through one half, flip it around in the vise, and do the other half.

The blade will take out some material as it separates the two halves, but they are still decent thickness. They won't come out perfect, but even if you have to toss a couple you still have 10 buffers now instead of the 6 pack you got.

Maybe a tiny little hobby bandsaw or something would be perfect for slicing buffers.
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