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GP100 7 SHOT 357, not completely fixed

This is a discussion on GP100 7 SHOT 357, not completely fixed within the Ruger Double Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; I look forward to hearing from someone with experience using the "new" 2019 version of the 7 shot as to whether the problems with rim ...


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Old February 8th, 2019, 10:54 AM   #16
 
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I look forward to hearing from someone with experience using the "new" 2019 version of the 7 shot as to whether the problems with rim lock no longer exist.



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Old February 8th, 2019, 01:19 PM   #17
 
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One heck of a stab in the dark. Maybe you could use some engineering skills and take some measurements and then it would't be an opinion.
This has been done several times. I did it myself. It's not a figment of anyone's imagination as evidenced by all those reporting the problem. That Ruger offers to exchange guns for those with the problem pretty much agrees with this.

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Old February 8th, 2019, 02:01 PM   #18
 
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The most alarming thing that doesn't make sense, when they knew about the issue, they kept making the darn things without the changes applied to the revolver that they have said they made recently. Seems like a money loss and counting on customers to just accept the flaw, maybe that worked to an extent but it obviously was serious enough for them to do something about it later....
It's been said before . . . on occasion, marketing overrules engineering.

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Old February 8th, 2019, 03:32 PM   #19
 
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It's been said before . . . on occasion, marketing overrules engineering.

So you KNOW production continued after the problems was discovered?
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Old February 8th, 2019, 05:14 PM   #20
 
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So you KNOW production continued after the problems was discovered?
They most likely knew about the potential for problems long before the gun ever went into production. Based on my experience as an engineer, my guess is that Marketing wanted a gun to compete with the Smith 686+ and asked Engineering to design a 7-shot GP100. Using modern CAD tools, a competent engineer would have detected the issue very early in the design process. At worst it should have been discovered in the pre-production stage during design verification testing. It's beyond belief that a modern engineering department wouldn't discover this issue until the gun was in production. It's also beyond belief that engineers wouldn't have explained the issue to Marketing and let them make the final call.

So, I believe they knew the problem existed, but were simply hoping that the statistical likelihood of rim binding wouldn't be great enough to be perceived as more than a minor annoyance to customers. In fact, at least some customers who've experienced the binding issue do not consider it more than a slight inconvenience.

That's all pure conjecture, but my explanation would probably be acknowledged as perfectly plausible to anyone who has worked as a design engineer in a manufacturing industry.
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Old February 8th, 2019, 09:16 PM   #21
 
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Several lengthy threads took place here and elsewhere during which there was first silence from Ruger, then sorta denial,then more silence, and then eventually it became known that Ruger would exchange a "problem" sevenshooter for a new sixshooter if requested. This latter development was the obvious tipoff that Ruger knew they had a problem. How long they kept the faulty sevenshooters in production after the problem was known to them is something we'll likely never know.

All most of us care about now is that they have acknowledged the problem and addressed it in a couple of ways and offered to make good on the faulty ones in the only way they could in the interim, by swapping even up for good sixshooters. If they are now swapping for "good" sevenshooters, so much the better. Don't know what else we could expect from them.

It's all a shame, but they'll survive, and I for one have no problem remaining a fan of Ruger guns. All JMHO, of course.
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Old February 8th, 2019, 10:51 PM   #22
 
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sure a lot of frustrations and headaches to get one more round of ammo into a revolver

hopefully they've worked it out, i personally like Ruger, every revolver i've bought has been problem free and will last 100 years
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Old February 9th, 2019, 12:06 AM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by Sr40ken View Post
One heck of a stab in the dark. Maybe you could use some engineering skills and take some measurements and then it would't be an opinion.
Being an engineer, I took this as a fun challenge. I measured my 6 shot Gp100 to calculate a diameter of the center of the chambers. Assuming Ruger maintained the bore axis and using the formula for a heptagon, the distance between the center of the chambers is 0.4547" on a 7-shot GP100.

For average rounds, the clearance is 0.02". For rounds at SAAMI max, the clearance is 0.01". The 6-shot GP100 has a clearance around 0.06".

It seems like 0.01"-0.02" should be doable, but maybe tolerance stacking and a little grime is enough to cause problems.
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Old February 9th, 2019, 09:24 AM   #24
 
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I did all the same and came up with 0.4338" center/center on seven-shot chambers, so maybe 0.434" rims MIGHT fit depending on the tolerances of case diameter and chamber diameter. At SAAMI rim max of 0.440" though, no.

My numbers are based on a 1" diameter "bore circle", measured on my GP100 and then doing the necessary geometry and trig to calculate the center/center distance. You used the arc length for seven chambers on the 1" diameter, but the actual spacing involved is the straight chord length between any two holes.

Similar manipulations indicate that the "bore circle" would have to be at least 1.014" for just barely rim/rim contact on SAAMI-max cases.

Small numbers . . . and I'm betting that Ruger did NOT make the "bore circle" to that odd 1.014" diameter. There would have been zero reason to do so when designing the original gun for six chambers.

Whatever, it was a "calculated" (or not) decision, and as a designer myself I can only hope the engineers explained the potential problem but marketing said "Ahh, what's a few thousandths? SELL 'EM!"

JMHO


Last edited by Ale-8(1); February 9th, 2019 at 09:37 AM.
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Old February 9th, 2019, 10:27 AM   #25
 
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Ale-8

Your calculation is correct. I did the geometry correct, but I tried to do the math on my phone and had rounding errors.

I searched the web afterwards and found a calculator online. Enter bore radius in Circumcircle radius (rc) and Edge length (a) will be the maximum diameter of the cartridge base.

https://rechneronline.de/pi/heptagon.php
Attached Images
File Type: png Heptagon.PNG (109.9 KB, 14 views)
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Old February 9th, 2019, 03:13 PM   #26
 
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Hey, neat calculator, thanks.

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Old February 10th, 2019, 02:16 AM   #27
 
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Took my 7shot out past Friday and picked a box of Winchester white box out of my inventory and fired them, no issues, to date i have had NO issue with ANY premium defense ammo and have only had one brand of target ammo that i don't remember brand that was "tight" when loaded with 7 rounds, i sure wish i could say same with my auto loaders.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 08:02 AM   #28
 
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Good thread. I bought My GP 100 model 1771 new in January 2019, and it is now at Ruger for the same problem that is being discussed. I received a e-mail from the CSR Friday afternoon 2-8-19 stating that they would replace it with the same model.

I tried to call the CSR and got a recording. Unless they have fixed the binding problem which from reading threads here, I doubt that they have. I do not want another 7 shot,

The problem is according to the Ruger website is they do not make a identical model in 6 shot as mine except the match grade.

Will call tomorrow 2-11-19 and see what I can work out

Been a loyal Ruger customer for a big part of my 77 years, hope I can continue being
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Old February 10th, 2019, 08:57 AM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by jerryw1941 View Post
The problem is according to the Ruger website is they do not make a identical model in 6 shot as mine except the match grade.

Ruger replaced my 1771 with a 1762 Lipsey's Distributor Exclusive which has the identical features of the 1771 except it is a 6-shooter. One of the reasons I got the 7-shot was that I liked the grip and sight it had, so I was glad to get a 6-shot with those same features.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 10:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by jerryw1941 View Post
Good thread. I bought My GP 100 model 1771 new in January 2019, and it is now at Ruger for the same problem that is being discussed. I received a e-mail from the CSR Friday afternoon 2-8-19 stating that they would replace it with the same model.

I tried to call the CSR and got a recording. Unless they have fixed the binding problem which from reading threads here, I doubt that they have. I do not want another 7 shot,

The problem is according to the Ruger website is they do not make a identical model in 6 shot as mine except the match grade.

Will call tomorrow 2-11-19 and see what I can work out

Been a loyal Ruger customer for a big part of my 77 years, hope I can continue being
I would push back on Ruger. I sent back the exact same model on December 1st and got a 6-shot back on Jan 9th. While the "big picture" was disappointing I ended up with a gun that I love. Maybe it's the fact that I had to put so much personal effort into it...

Apparently I haven't posted enough messages for the forum to allow me to post links. You can look at my final post in the "Ruger GP-100, 7 shot Two threads merged" thread for a summary of my experience.
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