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New Guy W/New Scope

10K views 68 replies 17 participants last post by  116thAHC 
#1 ·
Hello. I recently picked up a 10/22TD and discovered that my 68 year old eyes don't work the same as they used to, despite cataract surgery last year. I used the iron sights on my first visit to the range and didn't do that bad other than having to keep the target closer than anyone else and seeing a fuzzy target even at close range. I'll probably continue indoor range use so bought a Simmons scope and they put it on and bore sighted it. 2nd range visit today and couldn't hit any target I aimed for. Stopped the fun and went into the store area and the asked the kid that sold me the scope for help. He did some major adjustments to the scope and shot about a dozen rounds. His last two shots were bulls eyes. Mine after the adjustments were very straight but at least 6 inches low. Made an appointment to get some training next Tuesday, my next range day.

I shot a Mossberg .22 almost every weekend as a kid; target and varmints and M14 M16 and M60s as a Crew Chief/ Door Gunner in RVN. Now I've regressed to trainee! Anyone else have trouble learning to use a scope? Thanks.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Glad to hear you are still trying to enjoy shooting thats great and if getting a scope helps with there's nothing wrong with that and by the way Welcome to the Ruger Forum!:D:D Hey there Neon what part of Tennessee did you move to? I think that Hickcock .45 lives in Tenn. he does a ton of video's on You Tube. I would like to meet him seems like a nice guy.
 
#7 ·
Felt my ears burning...must be talking about me...

I'm pushing 68 (next month) and decided to pick up on this hobby about a year and a half ago - my first was a Savage FV XP (basically a bull barrel .22 with a scope) and I'm still trying to learn the ins and outs of using it. About the time I think I've got it wired, something new pops up and I'm back at square one. But that's OK 'cause I'm nearly always learning something new and not sitting at home staring at the walls. I also have a 10/22 carbine with Tech Sights peep sights and there are some days when I do better with it than with a scoped firearm (and I wear trifocals).

And, while you're learning the scope thing, you'll be getting into testing for which ammo your firearm likes best. .22's are notoriously picky eaters. Each one is different, with different tastes and it may take awhile to find what works best in yours. Not to worry, though. You get to do a lot of shooting while figuring it out!!
 
#8 ·
Thank you. Even though it's a little frustrating I'm enjoying it. Federal ammo seems to be the cleanest so far but no problems with any other brands. Supplies are still pretty limited here in WNY. The gun guy at Walmart said he hasn't seen .22 ammo in a year!
 
#10 ·
Old eyes can do some strange things. For no apparent reason, I suddenly can see clearer without my glasses when using a scope. Now you're at least on target. Once grouping is consistent, adjust scope for your eyes. You are dealing with three factors, your eyes, glasses and scope optics.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Hey Gunner!

I've come to the conclusion that acquiring the clearest affordable magnifying-glass with adjustable objectives is the key to managing the aging eye syndrome. I've had good success with Leupold Mark 4s and Burris XRTs with side focus parallax turrets but that would had been overkill for a .22 fun gun.

I'm wondering if your Simmons glass is fixed focus/parallex and if test driving a scope with an adjustable objective lens might get you back on target. I recently picked up a 10/22 and just for kicks & giggles gave a fixed focus Nikon with parallax set for 100 yards a test drive. That was a major fail for these 70+ eyeballs for distances significantly inside of 100 yards. The Nikon Prostaff Target EFR 3-9x40 AO [Adjustible Objective] cleaned up my "sight picture" with a simple spin of the front objective bezel from within 10 yards to infinity and Nikon's precision reticle is fine for shooting targets.

Here's a vid on the Nikon EFR:
Nikon Prostaff Target EFR 3-9x40AO - YouTube

And another vid on how to dial in an AO scope:
How To Use Adjustable Objective on Rifle Scopes - YouTube
 
#16 ·
Critterdoc,

The Simmons was a $39 purchase. I only intend to use it on the 50 yd max range, nothing more. I'm scheduled to return to the range for scope training on Tuesday. My instructor was able to bulls eye the targets but was at least 6 inches low. As far as being left or right of target I was right on, just low. The crosshairs were on target so I must be doing something wrong, I'll find out then.
Thanks for your input, I'll copy your post and take it with me Tuesday.
 
#18 ·
I hesitate to say too much if you have a formal class scheduled, especially to a combat veteran who gunned with the 116th AHC Hornets, but here are some random thoughts that respectfully come to mind:

Who installed & zeroed your scope, and are you sure you are on the same page with the instructor when it comes to reticle management and how the zero is set up?

Check the integrity and stability of your mounts.

Review trigger control factors - slowly & gently presssssss, trying not to anticipate the shot and gradually increase pressure on the trigger straight back seeking a surprise break which should help in avoid flinching. Jerking the trigger, anticipating the fall of the hammer and reacting to recoil and/or the bang before it happens could be the culprit in the case of a low POI.

Get up close and personal with finger placement and your friend the trigger reset function. You did not comment on your position or posture when your POI was consistently 6 inches low. I would suggest that you practice firing from a bench using a bag or some form of stable rest if possible. Derive your target picture, isolate yourself as much as possible, then slowly and seamlessly press that trigger. When the shot breaks continue holding the trigger back for a few seconds as you confirm your POI. Then slowly release it forward until you perceive that the reset function has kicked in. Then, at the point of the reset click, start the process again.

See reset function 1:45-3:50 in this vid:
Shooting Tips: Trigger Control - Pull, Reset, Position, Follow Through, Ect.... (HD) - YouTube

And again here at 3:00-3:30:
Shooting Fundamentals - Long Range Shooting Technique - YouTube

…am looking forward to hearing a report on how the class goes on Tuesday.

But most importantly and above all, thank you for your service with the Hornets.
116th AHC Hornets Reunion
 
#19 ·
Critterdoc, My Tuesday range appointment is with the person who installed the scope and was able to shot a couple bulls eyes with it. I use good ear protection and had the range to myself so noise wasn't a problem. The trigger does seem to require a little more effort than I'd prefer but I'll get used to it. I shot sitting on a stool and rested the rifle on the bench with the crosshairs on target and I didn't notice any major movement when firing. Recoil is a non factor with the 10/22. I'll see what happens on Tuesday.

Thanks for recognizing my service. I was very lucky to serve in a fantastic unit.
 
#20 ·
The trigger group in my 10/22 iTac was the first thing that was upgraded with a Clark Custom Guns Ruger OEM Metal Trigger Assembly with Clark's Trigger job (CLK-B2C) yielding a vast improvement but I'm told that simply dropping in a quality aftermarket hammer from any of several sources can greatly improve the function of the uber conservative factory action.
 
#23 ·
Back to the range today. First couple shots were still low so asked for help. The scope was found to still be out of adjustment and required some major elevation adjustment. After that I was able to hit each of the 12 targets on the sheet. Targets on the left side had less hits and they figured out that I had some difficulty due to target colors. A few more minor adjustments next time and I should be good to go. Still working on smooth trigger pull, breathing and positioning.

Thanks everyone.
 
#24 ·
It is a bitch knowing what you could do at one time you cant do now. 10yrs younger than you but similar challenges.
Put scope on my TD and took several trip to range to get it somewhat where I want it. 50 yards seems to be the more accurate distance for these eyes. Fist pump in air and alot of whooping when I get in the bullseye. Grouping getting closer together consistantly.
Not going to be applying for a sharpshooter position or sniper so my expectations and abilities have to realized. Still enjoyable though and gets you out and socialize with people with similar interests.
 
#25 ·
alsoran, You are right, it gets a little better with every trip to the range. I'm a somewhat impatient person and expect change to be faster. I do look forward to range visits and have been going once a week since picking up the 10/22 td. The last visit had some good groupings, each visit shows improvement. I'll also schedule an eye exam as I'm noticing some vision changes. Also the targets within the target sheet are smaller than anything I've ever shot at. Maybe I'll ask them to set up some bottles and cans!
 
#26 ·
Also the targets within the target sheet are smaller than anything I've ever shot at.
That is a huge part of it right there.

The other part is it does take time and there is definitely a learning curve to putting it all together at one time in order to shoot the wings off a fly with 40gr pea. If it was too easy it would be boring after the first few hundred thousand rounds. :D

What I would recommend you do is set up for the absolute best, most rock solid bench rest at home and dry fire at something as small as possible like a single red pen dot on a piece of paper and at a short distance like 30'. The smallest dot you can see that is barely larger than the cross hairs so you can see that your cross hairs are on the dot. Now when you dry fire what you want to accomplish is to not have your cross hair move off the dot after the trigger is pulled. If it does move any at all you need to figure out why and make it stop.

Quite a few things can cause movement. However, if it is a mechanical problem with the scope, scope mounting, or loose barreled action in the stock that you can fix but first you must isolate the problem.

If it's the way you are holding it on target you can fix your rest and hold. If it moves when you pull the trigger then practice dry firing until it doesn't move any more. Simple things like where your thumb is and how you grip the stock can make a huge difference.

The factory trigger pull weight on the 1022 is very heavy for accurate target shooting. You can get a very nice trigger job from Brimstone for under $50 shipped both ways. However, don't be too quick to do that. Get as good as you can with the factory trigger. When you pull the trigger in dry fire pull the trigger fully to the rear of it's travel and hold it back for at least a full second while you analyze the results. Take a LONG time and ONLY enough pressure to release the hammer and no more. What you want to attempt to do is to make the trigger creep. If you can get it to move slightly once the slack is taken up before it breaks that means you are fine tuning your trigger pull. It's easier said than done. If you are in the habit of yanking the trigger back then going to a light trigger pull will be hard to get used to for a while. If you are in the habit of a very slow and very controlled pull it will be easy to adjust to provided the lighter trigger doesn't have any creep.

MOA= minutes of angle. You probably already know that. However, you should analyze your dry fire. For example. At 30" 1moa is equal to 0.1" ..... Therefore if your cross hairs move off the dot by only .2" at 30' that is going to be off by at LEAST 2" at 100yards. As you pointed out, that doesn't matter shooting at a man size silhouette with a M16 but it is huge when you want to dot the i and cross the T.

If your cross hairs absolutely don't move even the tiniest bit in dry fire than odds are the only thing you have to do next to be shooting quite well is have good ammo and dial the scope in.

http://rugerforum.net/optics/94462-1022-optics-options-sights-scopes-dots-rings-rails-more.html?

People seriously underestimate the value of the dialed in cheek rest. For ever I hated scopes but didn't realize why. Everything changes when the scope is at the right height and the right eye relief with your cheek bone pressed down on the spine of the stock butt. We grew up with iron sights extremely low to the bore and no problems focusing on the the target and the sights at the same time. Now that is impossible. With a typical rifle, including the standard 1022 carbine and sporter models, if your head is low enough to get your eye level with the super low sights your cheek bone is down hard onto the stock and your head cannot go any lower. Once you add a scope that is 1" or so higher you have to lift your head up. Which is more comfortable for old folks of course. However, it also changes that rock solid hold on the gun. Firm shouldering and the proper grip with the head braced DOWN on the stock makes a huge difference in being able to keep the muzzle from moving off target prior to the pea exiting the barrel. You will hear people with factory hunter style stocks with scopes jacked way up in the air talk about how they get a good "cheek weld". Well, what they mean is they have the side of their jaw bone pressed against the side of their stock. It's not the same and no where near as good. You want your cheek bone to not be able to go any lower when your eye is dead on level with the scope center. It is also a huge benefit to have the scope set in the perfect position fore/aft for the correct eye relief. I you are having to hold the rifle a certain way or your head in a certain position that is less the ideal it is not properly mounted. The scope fore/aft position should be set to perfection after your head is locked down in it's natural position with the stock planted firmly in the shoulder and can no longer move up/down or fore/aft. All you have left to control is left right which is much easier if the other two are locked in at the perfect spot already.

Ryan Cleckner demonstrates how to go about getting a cheek rest that actually works the same way the factory sets the rifle stock up to work with iron sights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COoXVpGfXQE

It also helps to know your trajectory. The velocity of the ammo, the quality of the ammo, the height of the sight/scope (I call it eye level).

You can use the ballistics calculator with the advanced features to see what the effect of ammo type, velocity, scope zero distance, and sight height have on trajectory flatness.

If all one ever does is sit at a bench shooting paper at fixed distances it makes little difference. However, that isn't the real world. In the real world you have to know your trajectory and optimize your zero distance for any given scope height and ammo.

Gun Reviews & Prices GunData.org GunData.org


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#27 · (Edited)
One thing I forgot to mention that you should do asap is set for dry fire at the smallest target from a rest and with the safety ON pull on the trigger as hard as possible (smooth so as not to move off target) and see if excess force moves the whole barreled action in the stock. If you can make it move that is not good and you can correct it with simple things like masking tape shims in the receiver bed or under the barrel inside the fore end channel etc. If you can make everything rock solid and have zero movement after releasing the hammer in dry fire you are all set to get started shooting for accuracy.
 
#28 ·
Thanks ZommyGun, I used the Ruger carry bag as a rifle rest last week and it seemed to help. The barrel did move up and to the right a little after each shot. I'm clamped on from the trigger back but can't find an easy way to get a hold on any part of the front of the stock. Ammo is in short supply here and I've used Winchester (sold at range) and Federal, both 38 grain hp. I picked up 2 boxes of 50 CCI 40 grain target rounds yesterday at Cabela's, that just opened here. I appreciate the advice.
 
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