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Looking for a little load data help

This is a discussion on Looking for a little load data help within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Originally Posted by Iowegan mk3, I wouldn't waste my time using load data that does not include COL (bullet seating depth) nor would I use ...


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Old November 9th, 2019, 06:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
mk3, I wouldn't waste my time using load data that does not include COL (bullet seating depth) nor would I use data for a "generic bullet". Yes, QuickLOAD gives a recommended bullet seating depth . usually the same exact OAL as the bullet manufacturer's reloading manual. You can also change the OAL and see what happens to chamber pressure. QuickLOAD is NOT a reloading manual . it's just computer generated data based on powder properties, case capacity, bullet weight, and other factors. Usually it is very close to published data, however I just use it as a sanity test for loads from a reputable reloading manual or a "what if?" for seating bullets different than recommended COL.
Iowegan, I understand that the best and safest cartridge one can make is from using the data from the bullet manufacturer, using their exact same components.
But because for various reasons it is not always possible or cost effective to use a given manufacturers bullet and from what I gather a lot of people use bullets from folks who don't publish books.
I am not suggesting to not include the COL from that data but it would be nice to also know how much of the bullet is sitting beneath the surface so that if one is using a bullet of the same weight but with a different ogive or exterior shape, one would be sure to not seat the bullet too deep and avoid too much pressure. If I was using a 45ACP Precision Delta 230gr FMJ for example and using the data and COL from Lyman or Hornady I would like to know for my own sanity that it is not seated .030 deeper than the one Lyman is using.
I hope this makes sense.



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Old November 9th, 2019, 09:20 PM   #17
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mk3, I totally understand what you mean. Although QuickLOAD may not be 100% perfect for determining chamber pressure, it does tell you a lot about comparing different bullets and different seating depths (COL). For example ….. if you have two loads that use the same exact powder charge, case and primer, with the same bullet weight and COL but different type bullets, you would think chamber pressure and velocity would be the same ….. but it isn't. Why? The shape/style of the bullet can change the amount of volume inside the case, which in turn changes chamber pressure and velocity. Another example: lets say you have a 158gr FMJ and a 158gr JHP. The JHP will be longer because the hollow point requires more length to achieve the same weight. As such, if COL is the same, the hollow point bullet will be seated deeper, which will increase chamber pressure by a notable amount.

The second issue is the bullet's bearing surface with the bore. Again, two different bullets with the same weight, same powder charge, primer, case, and COL ….. the bullet with more contact surface area will increase chamber pressure.

So, without having a resource like QuickLOAD, it's just a guessing game that could result in poor performance or possibly an over pressure situation, depending if chamber pressure increases or decreases. QuickLOAD lets you do "what ifs", meaning you can change the seating depths with different bullets to find the depth that gives you the same chamber pressure as a book load. Problem is ….. even though QuickLOAD lists a ton of different brands, weights, and styles of bullets, many of the no-name bulk bullets are not listed so you are back to a guessing game again. QuickLOAD does have provisions to "make your own bullet" by plugging in the dimensions from an actual sample bullet. I've only tried this once with a lead bullet and my load data tracked very close to a book load.

Sometimes it's just no big deal …. like shooting over pressure 38 Specials in a revolver chambered for 357 Mag. If 38 Special chamber pressure (17k psi max) was 50% too high (25.5k psi), it might damage a revolver chambered for 38 Specials but because a 357 Mag chamber is rated at 35,000 psi, it would be well under max pressure limits. The issue here is to never shoot mystery bullets in a 38 Special revolver.

45 ACPs don't have that luxury …. their max chamber pressure is 21K psi but the good news is … the larger the bullet diameter, the less chamber pressure is affected by COL. So …. stay off the high end of the charts and you should be OK by using load data and COL for the same weight and style bullet.

Lets discuss cost …. no doubt you can save a lot of money by buying bulk grade or no-name bullets. What I found when using bulk grade Remington or Winchester jacketed bullets …. none of the bullets weighed their advertised weight…. ie 230gr 45 cal FMJs …. some weigh a few grains lighter or a few grains heavier but never 230gr. This is OK for practice or plinking ammo but certainly not good enough for match grade performance.

I started using Missouri coated 230gr lead bullets in my 1911s a few years ago …. no specific load data and the bullets are not listed in QuickLOAD …. but they are much cheaper than name brand bullets. I chronographed book loads using Hornady 230gr LRN at 840 fps with 6gr of Unique. Using the same load data, I found the Missouri bullets were about 60 fps faster (900 fps) so I reduced the charge weight to 5.8gr and they came out to virtually identical velocities. This tells me chamber pressure has to be very close to the same plus I could go up to 900 fps with 6.6gr of Unique without exceeding the 21k psi max pressure limit so I know this load is safely within limits.
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Old November 10th, 2019, 02:40 PM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
mk3, I totally understand what you mean. Although QuickLOAD may not be 100% perfect for determining chamber pressure, it does tell you a lot about comparing different bullets and different seating depths (COL). For example ….. if you have two loads that use the same exact powder charge, case and primer, with the same bullet weight and COL but different type bullets, you would think chamber pressure and velocity would be the same ….. but it isn't. Why? The shape/style of the bullet can change the amount of volume inside the case, which in turn changes chamber pressure and velocity. Another example: lets say you have a 158gr FMJ and a 158gr JHP. The JHP will be longer because the hollow point requires more length to achieve the same weight. As such, if COL is the same, the hollow point bullet will be seated deeper, which will increase chamber pressure by a notable amount.

The second issue is the bullet's bearing surface with the bore. Again, two different bullets with the same weight, same powder charge, primer, case, and COL ….. the bullet with more contact surface area will increase chamber pressure.

So, without having a resource like QuickLOAD, it's just a guessing game that could result in poor performance or possibly an over pressure situation, depending if chamber pressure increases or decreases. QuickLOAD lets you do "what ifs", meaning you can change the seating depths with different bullets to find the depth that gives you the same chamber pressure as a book load. Problem is ….. even though QuickLOAD lists a ton of different brands, weights, and styles of bullets, many of the no-name bulk bullets are not listed so you are back to a guessing game again. QuickLOAD does have provisions to "make your own bullet" by plugging in the dimensions from an actual sample bullet. I've only tried this once with a lead bullet and my load data tracked very close to a book load.

Sometimes it's just no big deal …. like shooting over pressure 38 Specials in a revolver chambered for 357 Mag. If 38 Special chamber pressure (17k psi max) was 50% too high (25.5k psi), it might damage a revolver chambered for 38 Specials but because a 357 Mag chamber is rated at 35,000 psi, it would be well under max pressure limits. The issue here is to never shoot mystery bullets in a 38 Special revolver.

45 ACPs don't have that luxury …. their max chamber pressure is 21K psi but the good news is … the larger the bullet diameter, the less chamber pressure is affected by COL. So …. stay off the high end of the charts and you should be OK by using load data and COL for the same weight and style bullet.

Lets discuss cost …. no doubt you can save a lot of money by buying bulk grade or no-name bullets. What I found when using bulk grade Remington or Winchester jacketed bullets …. none of the bullets weighed their advertised weight…. ie 230gr 45 cal FMJs …. some weigh a few grains lighter or a few grains heavier but never 230gr. This is OK for practice or plinking ammo but certainly not good enough for match grade performance.

I started using Missouri coated 230gr lead bullets in my 1911s a few years ago …. no specific load data and the bullets are not listed in QuickLOAD …. but they are much cheaper than name brand bullets. I chronographed book loads using Hornady 230gr LRN at 840 fps with 6gr of Unique. Using the same load data, I found the Missouri bullets were about 60 fps faster (900 fps) so I reduced the charge weight to 5.8gr and they came out to virtually identical velocities. This tells me chamber pressure has to be very close to the same plus I could go up to 900 fps with 6.6gr of Unique without exceeding the 21k psi max pressure limit so I know this load is safely within limits.
Boy, cant improve on that description!!

...another example of bullets not typically listed in manuals (or not always listed in QL for that matter) would be the 'Hollow Base' bullets, the use of these (such as Berrys) change volume capacity in the cartridge space where the explosion occurs .... when compared to flatbase.

Yet in QL, you can tag the bullet as HB (or even BoatTails too), then customize the bullet 'base' dims of both HB & BT bullets which will then alter the calculated results for your 'estimation' .... calculated PSI is one example. You can also adjust initial estimation of the hardness of your bullet, before calculating.
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Old November 14th, 2019, 06:35 PM   #19
 
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Here is your IMR 4350 data. Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading. It is for Nosler and Barnes bullets. I use IMR 4350 as my go to powder for most loads. I resize 7mm Mag cases to 257 Weatherby and the load data is similar. Great powder and very consistent. I have killed pronghorns out to 563 yards with my favorite load in 30-06 and out to 429 yards in 243. Really a great powder even compared to the latest.
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