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350 Legend reloading?

This is a discussion on 350 Legend reloading? within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Hi guys, Just got off the phone with Ruger, seems that Winchester wasnt being nice when they made the 350 Legend, as the true bullet ...


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Old September 26th, 2019, 10:39 AM   #1
 
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350 Legend reloading?

Hi guys,

Just got off the phone with Ruger, seems that Winchester wasnt being nice when they made the 350 Legend, as the true bullet size is .355, as in 9mm. Why wouldnt they just use .357 or .358 so us 356 guys or 35 Whelen/Remington guys could use existing stuff?!?!

None the less, anybody tried cast in one of these yet? Maybe sized down said cartridges above?

Thanks in advance, I know I may be too soon for this type of conversation, but just curious on thoughts.




Last edited by Gehlsurf; September 26th, 2019 at 11:24 AM.
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Old September 26th, 2019, 06:28 PM   #2
 
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The 350 Legend is indeed a .355 bore with SAAMI bullet specs of .354" to .357" bullet diameter. More than that limitation, the chambering specs favor bullets with rifle like ogives. One reason for this is the concern that 357 handgun bullets are too lightly constructed to perform well for hunting at 350 legend velocities.This is a rifle round, not a lengthened .357 handgun round. So the 350 legend really needs proprietary bullets to be successful with reloaders.

Casters may have an advantage here. Just find a 35 caliber bullet with a rifle like ogive and size to .356" or so.

Last edited by robert 1408; September 26th, 2019 at 06:33 PM. Reason: additional comment
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Old September 26th, 2019, 06:50 PM   #3
 
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Point of clarification here - despite the truth the SAAMI bore and groove spec for the .350 Legend are .346”/.355”, which sure seems to match what we know of the 9mm to be a .355” bullet. However, the BORE spec and bullet spec are different things. The Legend has the same bore and groove spec as 357mag and 38special. While it may not be a rifle bore spec, it’s not a 9mm pistol bore spec either - it’s a “revolver” bore spec. Such it can utilize a great number of inexpensive revolver bullets, with a few great revolver bullets already able to tolerate the high impact velocity, and more to come.

Equally, a reloader is capable of drawing .358” rifle bullets down to .357” to suit the higher impact velocity - or down to .356” or .355” if they so desired. I have been drawing jacketed .358” bullets down to .357” for .357max and .357/44 revolvers and specialty pistols for several years. It’s a bit more elbow taxing than drawing soft cast lead bullets, but not even as much resistance as sizing 300win mag.
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Old September 26th, 2019, 09:50 PM   #4
 
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Interesting, so 357 bullets may be usable, huh? That's good to know!! I'm actually more interested in being able to go from full power down to sub sonic loads for suppressed shooting.

I currently have a 77/357 I shoot 245 grain subsonic in, suppressed. I love the versatility of this rifle. But.... if 350 Legend means I can have heavy subs AND higher velocity/longer range bullets.... AND magazines larger than 5?! Than I'm all in, gentlemen! Love my 77/357, but can lack.in the supersonic longer range varieties, which it was not meant for.

Honestly, for what they sell for, I may have to pick one up and play around with it, I think Lee has dies for it, would have to look around again.
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Old September 26th, 2019, 09:53 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticlelife View Post
Point of clarification here - despite the truth the SAAMI bore and groove spec for the .350 Legend are .346”/.355”, which sure seems to match what we know of the 9mm to be a .355” bullet. However, the BORE spec and bullet spec are different things. The Legend has the same bore and groove spec as 357mag and 38special. While it may not be a rifle bore spec, it’s not a 9mm pistol bore spec either - it’s a “revolver” bore spec. Such it can utilize a great number of inexpensive revolver bullets, with a few great revolver bullets already able to tolerate the high impact velocity, and more to come.

Equally, a reloader is capable of drawing .358” rifle bullets down to .357” to suit the higher impact velocity - or down to .356” or .355” if they so desired. I have been drawing jacketed .358” bullets down to .357” for .357max and .357/44 revolvers and specialty pistols for several years. It’s a bit more elbow taxing than drawing soft cast lead bullets, but not even as much resistance as sizing 300win mag.
Reticlelife, so you've sized down jacketed bullets before? This intrigues me, as I've thought if it, but never really looked into it before. I currently do it for my 245 grain subsonics (352 Saeco sized down to 358 for my 77/357). I'd like to keep using this bullet for a 350 legend. Maybe also try some jacketed, once load data becomes available. What sizers do you use? I use Lee
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Old September 27th, 2019, 03:48 AM   #6
 
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That asinine .355 bore diameter lead me back to the 450bm and not looking back!
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Old September 27th, 2019, 05:50 AM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gehlsurf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticlelife View Post
I have been drawing jacketed .358” bullets down to .357” for .357max and .357/44 revolvers and specialty pistols for several years. It’s a bit more elbow taxing than drawing soft cast lead bullets, but not even as much resistance as sizing 300win mag.
Reticlelife, so you've sized down jacketed bullets before? This intrigues me, as I've thought if it, but never really looked into it before. I currently do it for my 245 grain subsonics (352 Saeco sized down to 358 for my 77/357). I'd like to keep using this bullet for a 350 legend. Maybe also try some jacketed, once load data becomes available. What sizers do you use? I use Lee
Yes. I size jacketed bullets. I also use the Lee push through bullet sizing dies. I tumble the bullets in Lee Liquid Alox, dry, then size.
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Old September 27th, 2019, 05:52 AM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phish View Post
That asinine .355 bore diameter lead me back to the 450bm and not looking back!
The .355” bore specification offers you the same advantage as your 450 Bushmaster - the ability to use common revolver bullets for the .350 Legend. As mentioned above, the Legend bore is spec’d to use .357” revolver bullets. .357mag, .38 special, and 9mm all have the same bore specification. .346” bore and .355” groove. Many guys have lost their minds about the .355” bore specification without understanding it’s a common spec among 35 caliber revolver cartridges and 9mm alike.

Alternatively, the bullet specification does not match that of 9mm, nor the .357mag/.38spcl. The bullet spec is .357”-0.003”, whereas 9mm bullet spec is .355”-.003”, and .357mag jacketed bullet spec is .358”-.003”. Guys are using revolver bullets for it, as designed.

So everything you like about using .452” revolver bullets for 450bushmaster (rather than only .458” rifle bullets in a .458 socom), remains true for the 350 Legend using .357” revolver bullets.

Last edited by Reticlelife; September 27th, 2019 at 06:12 AM.
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Old September 27th, 2019, 06:39 AM   #9
 
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Ok, so this would explain revolvers that can change cylinders from 357/38 to 9mm, this makes sense to me.

I was reading in Castboolits that some guys have sized down just about everything to fit in their 350 Legends, cast obviously and jacketed. But, I dont know if its necessary or if they do it to eek out performance. Guys on that forum are always doing things for best performance, so sometimes tough to tell what's needed and what's done for "perfected engineering", lol.
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Old September 27th, 2019, 07:09 AM   #10
 
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So, for what it's worth, I called Winchester directly. They say any bullet that is .354 to .357 will work. Called Hornady as well, they will produce a jacketed bullet that is sized to .355-this is also on their site now for reload info.

Seems that .357 bullets will work, but not the larger 35 Whelen, etc bullets, u less swaged down. Personally, still think they shouldve done .356-.359. But if you cast, this will be a versatile gun it seems.

For hunting purposes, I think I will get one, as the lower size may actually help in hunting from small game to large game. Maybe some lightweight 90 grain or even 000 buck loads for rabbit popping, and sized down heavy 35 caliber (Whelen/Remington types) for heavy suppressed subs and then everything in between. I always use lead for heavy subs, as they tend to so the job better than jacketed-300 black out subs come to mind here and little to no expansion.
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Old October 6th, 2019, 11:52 AM   #11
 
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I had heard that the 350 Legend was a Revision of the old 357 Maximum, abandoned by Ruger years ago in their Revolvers due to various problems.
Should be ok in a Rifle
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Old October 6th, 2019, 02:26 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Nipperdog View Post
I had heard that the 350 Legend was a Revision of the old 357 Maximum, abandoned by Ruger years ago in their Revolvers due to various problems.
Should be ok in a Rifle
The .350 Legend wasn’t really a “revision” of the 357maximum, but rather a revision of the .357 Max AR. Which was “.357 maximum Auto Rimless.”

The moniker “.357 Max AR” stuck with the round for 3 reasons, 1) it was a 5.56 case expanded to straightwall, maximizing its capacity, 2) it uses load data very similar to the 357 Maximum rimmed revolver cartridge, and 3) the “Max-AR,” Auto Rimless, was really only meant for use in AR-15’s, so the AR suffix stuck in minds. But the Max-AR really wasn’t parented in any way by the rimmed Maximum - just a case with similar internal volume shooting the same bullet diameter.

However, while the Max-AR was trimmed to match the Max’s 1.605” case length (rather arbitrary choice, considering the platform), the Legend uses a 1.710” case length, with a 2.260” maximum cartridge overall length - while the Max revolver cartridge was stuck at 1.94”. Single shot pistol shooters loaded some bullets longer in the Max case, as did Max-AR shooter, but the extra case length can be a real advantage in muzzle velocity potential.

I’ve been a fan of Maximum and analogous cartridges for many years. There are a great many things which can be managed in hunting fields by a 180-200 grain bullet at 1800-2200fps. None of these cartridges, however, have been widely supported or easily sourced in bolt actions or semiautos, only for the most part in specialty pistols, custom rifles, or leveractions. The Legend is on shelves, including rifles, ammo, and component brass. I’m more and more tempted to put together a 10.5” upper for hunting, might even be able to get it together in time for our rifle season here in KS.

Last edited by Reticlelife; October 6th, 2019 at 02:28 PM.
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Old October 6th, 2019, 07:33 PM   #13
 
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I want to get excited about the 350 Legend but now I hear about the .355 bullet diameter. When will there be reloading bullets and brass for the 350 Legend??
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Old October 7th, 2019, 04:04 AM   #14
 
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The other day I picked up 6 fired 350 Legend cases at my club range. When I got home, I grabbed a jacketed 9mm pistol bullet to see if it would slide into the fired case.

The bullet was very hard to push into the mouth of the case like I was trying to push it into a sized case? Very strange that a fired case would still be so tight? Throats must be very tight in factory rifles.
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