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Judge my crimp please

This is a discussion on Judge my crimp please within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Thank you everyone for your help! I have landed on the one on the right hand side in the pic of the 2 rounds and ...


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Old October 2nd, 2019, 02:49 PM   #16
 
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Thank you everyone for your help! I have landed on the one on the right hand side in the pic of the 2 rounds and have been loading to that all through the summer. I went a little less than I see with a factory bought cartridge and so far ... 1000 rds with no issues and the brass looks great.




Last edited by aboriqua; October 2nd, 2019 at 02:52 PM.
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Old October 3rd, 2019, 04:08 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboriqua View Post
Here is try number 2. Its about half the bend as the first one. In the pic with the two uncharged rounds the old one is the one on the left and the new try is on the right.
Much better now.
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Old October 3rd, 2019, 11:29 AM   #18
 
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LEE Factory Crimp die:

You are in the zone. Looks good. As mentioned, you will see a "ring" if the crimp is adjusted too short. That ring is the mark made by the crimping sleeve as the mouth of the case enters the straight portion of the crimping sleeve. I can't think of an application where that would be required. I like a heavy crimp, not over crimped but approaching that.

In the picture are two 38 LC rounds, crimped into the crimping groove. The other crimp is into the bullet body on a coated bullet, no crimp groove. I like the crimp in the coated bullet to be deep enough that the case mouth outer diameter is just about even with the bullet body. I trim all those cases first, before crimping. I then back off the crimp just a bit from the point of having a visible "ring".
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Old October 26th, 2019, 05:31 PM   #19
 
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Generally, the least crimp you can get away with...that'll prevent the bullet from creeping forward under recoil in a revolver...will give you the best accuracy, IMHO. Any crimp deforms a lead alloy bullet and this should be avoided at all costs.

For target loads, almost zero crimp is necessary, you're only removing the case mouth flare which allows seating without shaving.

For medium loads, in .357 and both .44's, up to 1000 fps, a taper crimp works well even with lead alloy. If you're roll crimping, your cases need to be trimmed to identical lengths to achieve a uniform crimp...and since medium loads utilize medium burn rate powders like Unique, & Herco, a stout crimp is just not necessary to prevent forward movement.

For heavy loads in the magnum calibers, especially with slow burning powders (296, Acc9, H110, 2400 et.al.), a fairly heavy crimp is necessary not only to prevent movement of the bullet under recoil, but to promote better, more uniform ignition of the powder charge.

And for all of the above, so long as the bullet is not being forced forward under recoil, you can experiment with crimp type (roll vs. taper), and crimp strength to produce the best accuracy.

Summed up:
1. Use the minimum to prevent bullet movement, without bullet deformation, while still promoting good ignition.
2. Watch your target grouping for answers after complying with the first two prerequisites.

HTH's Rod (I've cast cast/loaded my own lead alloy revolver bullets since 1962)

Last edited by Rodfac; October 26th, 2019 at 05:35 PM.
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Old November 6th, 2019, 10:23 AM   #20
 
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I found one of the best ways to determine the amount of crimp is to measure they diameter just before the crimp line and at the crimp line. About two thousands less diameter is what I use. By using my dial caliper it helps eliminate the guessing for me. I don't think you should be able to feel a raised area, nor a dip. I think it should feel almost flat towards the end of the case.

Another way I check the crimp is to use the kinetic hammer and take a round apart. A cartridge should come apart in 3 to 5 solid hits, not 12 or 15!

Over crimping can create excessive pressures. I found that out yesterday when I took my BlackHawk 30 carbine and found the cases were sticking in the cylinder. I had loaded the rounds about three years ago for my M-1 carbine. I stopped shooting and am now forced with the task of taking apart about 50 rounds.

Fortunately my Ruger BH is built like a Sherman tank!

Thanks,
Steve
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Old November 8th, 2019, 05:49 AM   #21
 
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Here is the crimp I use on my 38/357 handloads using my old set of Lyman dies using a standard 158 gr. LSWC. amount of crimp is really going to depend on how much crimp groove the bullet actually has, but with this bullet which is similar to yours it's worked fine for many years.

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Old November 17th, 2019, 05:12 AM   #22
 
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The photos in post #1 the crimp looks like my 357 mag ctg’s when I use my “Redding Profile crimp die”. This special die create 3 types of crimp at once.
The Redding die start the crimp with the classic roll crimp of the case mouth, then the brass gets squeezed to form that narrow ring or band at the mouth. This ring sits just under the edge of the crimp groove of a cast bullet.
The last part of the Profile crimp forms a subtle but noticeable taper crimp below the rolled in part.

I use the first stage, the classic roll in over the edge of flush seated full wad cutters.

All 3 stages of the profile crimp get used for a very firm crimp on my 357 Mag ctg’s when I load H110 ( book maximum always with mag primers to insure ignition).

I believe RCBS makes a similar crimping die, I don’t remember what they call it.

The only thing I don’t like about the Special Redding Profile Crimp Die is that ring band never goes away. After firing and resizing that ring will forever be on those ctg’s cases.

If you over crimp using a classic roll crimp it is possible to buckle the case and actually loosen the case grip on the bullet. The Redding Profile Crimp die doesn’t do that as you can easily see how much ring band is forming.

The ring band reminds me of the LEE Factory crimp performed via collet fingers closing around the case mouth.
So as to the OP question regarding the quality of his crimping, it looks perfect from a Redding Profile die.

To set up a crimp die, this what I like to do:
Crimp in a separate operation from bullet seating.
Back off the bullet seating stem.
Turn the crimp die down till it touches the shell holder.
This is the maximum crimp point, use a marker pen and stroke a single line on the top of the die body a the 12 o’clock position (with 6 o’clock towards the press operator).
Backing the die up one turn to orient the pen mark at 12 o’clock again.
This puts the crimp die at the no crimp applied position.
Keeping with the clock face analogy, turn in the die body down to any “hour” that produces the desired amount of crimp.
Record the clock face hour in you loading notes.
The degree of crimp applied now can be repeated on your next reloading session, or changed by a known fixed amount by choosing a different “hour” position.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 05:38 AM   #23
 
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Looks like a bit too much.
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Old November 17th, 2019, 09:43 AM   #24
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodfac View Post
Generally, the least crimp you can get away with...that'll prevent the bullet from creeping forward under recoil in a revolver...will give you the best accuracy, IMHO. Any crimp deforms a lead alloy bullet and this should be avoided at all costs.

For target loads, almost zero crimp is necessary, you're only removing the case mouth flare which allows seating without shaving.

For medium loads, in .357 and both .44's, up to 1000 fps, a taper crimp works well even with lead alloy. If you're roll crimping, your cases need to be trimmed to identical lengths to achieve a uniform crimp...and since medium loads utilize medium burn rate powders like Unique, & Herco, a stout crimp is just not necessary to prevent forward movement.

For heavy loads in the magnum calibers, especially with slow burning powders (296, Acc9, H110, 2400 et.al.), a fairly heavy crimp is necessary not only to prevent movement of the bullet under recoil, but to promote better, more uniform ignition of the powder charge.

And for all of the above, so long as the bullet is not being forced forward under recoil, you can experiment with crimp type (roll vs. taper), and crimp strength to produce the best accuracy.

Summed up:
1. Use the minimum to prevent bullet movement, without bullet deformation, while still promoting good ignition.
2. Watch your target grouping for answers after complying with the first two prerequisites.

HTH's Rod (I've cast cast/loaded my own lead alloy revolver bullets since 1962)
Thats what I was going to say, thanks for saving me the typing
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Old November 18th, 2019, 11:00 AM   #25
 
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For heavy w296 charge & bullets, the below crimp is what I needed to prevent problems in the 420g lead bullet range. I cannot afford bullet movement at all, especially if in a defense situation, but no one wants a cylinder lockup anytime.
Am open to suggestions myself.

As other previous posters said .... i prefer the least amount of crimp possible. In fact, i really would prefer just a tight neck when I can get away with it. For standard weight bullets in smaller calibers, i would think tight neck and light crimp would be best. Less deformation and longer case life.

20191107_140805_1574103626512.jpg
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Old December 23rd, 2019, 04:53 AM   #26
 
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Not quite a roll crimp.
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