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Lead loads vs. Jacketed loads???

This is a discussion on Lead loads vs. Jacketed loads??? within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Question, is there a "sorta rule of thumb" in developing a lead load recipe when all you can find is jacketed load recipes? For example: ...


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Old June 15th, 2011, 05:02 PM   #1
 
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Lead loads vs. Jacketed loads???

Question, is there a "sorta rule of thumb" in developing a lead load recipe when all you can find is jacketed load recipes? For example:
155 GR. HDY XTP Clays .400" 1.125" 3.6 854 23,300 PSI 4.0 942 30,900 PSI
I want to shoot a 155gr LRN bullet instead of a jacketed XTP. How should you adjust the powder charge for lead vs. jacketed if the bullet weight is the same?



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Old June 15th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #2
 
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Generally start 10% lower and work up.
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Old June 15th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #3
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I agree. Knock off a good percentage of powder for lead, when using softer castings or swaged bullets. Hard cast can take much more powder. You may want to invest in the Lyman cast bullet handbook for loads for lead bullets..

First pure lead bullets through my GP100 today! LOVE IT!

First pure lead shot through my GP100 today! Never had run SWC through the barrel, so, this was a first for me. I'm hooked! What a pleasurable experience. Bullseyes (multiple) 25yards and the tightest groups yet!
They were 158gr SWC target rounds and with a little more smoke, but, dead-on accuracy whether off-hand standing or seated with rest. Best range session yet. I haven't cleaned the GP100 yet, but, I do have some pure copper Chore Boy if needed.
I was surprised at the actual feel with lead bullets. You can almost tell how good your shot is just by the feel. Plus, I had just added last night my new front sight, which also helped my groups a great deal! What a difference the SWC made in my shooting accuracy! Pleased to say the least! These were around 950 fps and worked out quite well.


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Old June 15th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #4
 
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What I do is look for a close match. For example, in .357 case, for a 158g lead bullet, the Hornady manual shows Clays from 2.5g (700fps) to 4.4g (950fps). 158g lead bullet is close enough to 155g bullet. So start with 3.4g as a 'starting' load right in the middle. Then work up (or down if you feel that is the direction to go) as you get experience with the powder to find it's sweet spot.... Should never get you into trouble doing it this way.

Last edited by rclark; June 15th, 2011 at 09:25 PM.
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Old June 16th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #5
 
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The Lyman "Pistol and Revolver Reloading Handbook" will take the guess work out of the equation for you. The book may speed up the process in finding a load that you like.

Take Care

Bob
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Old June 16th, 2011, 07:52 AM   #6
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Get a manual that has the reloading data you are looking for. Guessing your way to work up a load can cost you dearly.
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Old June 16th, 2011, 10:11 AM   #7
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Lefty, If you look in a good reloading manual and compare equal weight lead and jacketed bullets for the same cartridge, lead bullet loads will always use less powder for the same velocity. There's a good reason for this .... lead bullets seal much better in the cylinder throat and bore so less pressure is lost. That means lead bullets will develop higher velocity and it also means they develop higher barrel pressure.

When you compare lead bullets versus jacketed bullets, weight is not the only consideration. Lead bullets are typically .001" oversized (diameter) and because of their shape, they seat different in the case. A combination of different bullet seating depth and different diameter can get you into trouble. Take TMD's advice and get a manual that has your bullets listed.

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Old June 16th, 2011, 11:55 AM   #8
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I had a question on this as well.
Is there a "standard" for lead bullet manufacturers? Is a 158gr .358 SWC a 158gr .358 SWC?
Is a 147 gr .356 LRNFP a 147gr .356 LRNFP?
There are MANY cast and other lead bullets manufactured that don't have manuals or load data for those specific bullets. Such as Penn, Missouri, Oregon and others.
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Old June 16th, 2011, 01:35 PM   #9
 
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Will someone please look up in their Lyman book for 155gr LRN bullet in .40 S&W, hopefully with Clays powder

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Old June 16th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #10
 
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When I get home I`ll looky see .
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Old June 16th, 2011, 03:25 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidLife View Post
I had a question on this as well.
Is there a "standard" for lead bullet manufacturers? Is a 158gr .358 SWC a 158gr .358 SWC?
Is a 147 gr .356 LRNFP a 147gr .356 LRNFP?
There are MANY cast and other lead bullets manufactured that don't have manuals or load data for those specific bullets. Such as Penn, Missouri, Oregon and others.
The short answer is no. It pays to weigh the bullets you buy particularly if you intend to load to a certain power factor. Cast boolits can vary depending on the alloy used. Pure lead boolits will drop from a mold heavier than say alloy of 3% Antimony and 1% tin for example. Jacketed and plated also can vary in weight though from my experience they tend to be consistently one weight.

Lefty The Lyman "Pistol & Revolver Reloading Handbook doesn't list Clays but for a 150 gr Lead boolit

Unique Min 5 gr Max 6.3 gr
Win 231 Min 5.5 gr Max 6.5 gr
HS-6 Min 7.5 gr Max 6.4 gr
Bullseye Min 5 gr Max 6 gr

Take Care

Bob
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Old June 16th, 2011, 03:35 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Lefty, If you look in a good reloading manual and compare equal weight lead and jacketed bullets for the same cartridge, lead bullet loads will always use less powder for the same velocity. There's a good reason for this .... lead bullets seal much better in the cylinder throat and bore so less pressure is lost. That means lead bullets will develop higher velocity and it also means they develop higher chamber pressure.
With respect that maybe true in revolvers but I would also suggest the larger bearing surface of jacketed rounds create more friction thus accounting for the velocity loss.

eg: Using Lyman's Manual a 150 gr Jacketed HP load is listed using Unique.

5.5 gr gets you 982 fps at a pressure of 17,800CUP

The Lyman 401654 150 gr boolit requires only 5 gr of powder to get to 980 fps at a pressure of only 16,200CUP

The lead boolit gets pushed by 1,600CUP less pressure to achieve the same velocity ergo less friction is being incurred. I suspect because of the combination of the effect of the lube (which really acts a gas seal) and less bullet bearing surface on the barrel.

Take Care

Bob
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Old June 16th, 2011, 03:48 PM   #13
 
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I checked all my manuals for 155g lead for .40S&W with Clays. Interesting enough... I didn't find one. Sorry about above. I 'assumed' we were talking about .357. Never assume caliber either . Lyman's does list a bunch of other powders though for a 150g lead bullet.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 05:39 AM   #14
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If the book lists a similar bullet, is the seating depth and/or the COL. While bullets may weigh the same, how can one determine COL (when there is no grove) when preparing the round of a "similar" bullet. A good example is Missouri's 147gr RNFP cast bullet. Do you use the same data as for the Lyman #356637 ?
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Old June 17th, 2011, 05:58 AM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidLife View Post
If the book lists a similar bullet, is the seating depth and/or the COL. While bullets may weigh the same, how can one determine COL (when there is no grove) when preparing the round of a "similar" bullet. A good example is Missouri's 147gr RNFP cast bullet. Do you use the same data as for the Lyman #356637 ?
It sounds like you are loading for a 9MM pistol. IF you are there is a simple way to determine the max. OAL for any bullet for your gun.

1. Remove your barrel.
2. Measure the length of the bullet
3. Drop the bullet in the chamber and using a veneer caliper measure from the base of the bullet to where the case would sit flush in the chamber.
4. Add the measurements from 2 & 3.

This will give you the maximum length of cartridge for that gun. You have to back off a few thousandths from that length to give some leeway for press variations and variations in bullet length. Assemble a dummy cartridge and make sure the cartridge will load in your magazines. Load the dummy round in your magazine and test for function by cycling the round through the gun.

Take Care

Bob

Last edited by robertbank; June 19th, 2011 at 06:33 AM.
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