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Red Dot for 9 mm PC Carbine

This is a discussion on Red Dot for 9 mm PC Carbine within the Optics forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I’m looking to purchase a new “red dot” for my carbine. Lots of them out there. I’ve looked at the Primary Arms Red Dot and ...


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Old August 22nd, 2019, 11:35 AM   #1
 
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Red Dot for 9 mm PC Carbine

I’m looking to purchase a new “red dot” for my carbine. Lots of them out there. I’ve looked at the Primary Arms Red Dot and I want to use it. Hence my lack of knowledge to the experts for advice. I also was thinking of adding a 3x magnification to it also. Do I need a riser on the scope? What about the 3x mag ? Searched the web, only to find that due to the distance from the top of the bore to the center dot, does not provide 1/3 co-witness. This setup is primarily for the AR platform. Hope I got that right! Anyone please feel free to correct my interpretation. Basically they advertise 3 risers for each. I just want to make sure I get the right combo. Thanks all.



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Old August 22nd, 2019, 11:43 AM   #2
 
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no riser needed the primary arms dot will work just fine.
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 12:11 PM   #3
 
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Are you talking about a non-magnified red dot sight with a 3X magnifier mounted behind it?

How far out are you planning to shoot with the carbine? If you are planning to shoot out to 100 yards or less, you may find that you are happy with a non-magnified red dot sight. The 9 mm Luger cartridge looses steam pretty quickly after that and does not have great inherent accuracy (compared to rifle cartridges) at longer ranges anyway.

The terms "exact cowitness" and "lower 1/3 cowitness" when used by manufacturers of RDS applies to the AR platform. A riser for an exact cowitness will position the center of the optic 1.41" above the top of the Picatinny rail, because this is the height of the sight axis for the great majority of fixed or flip-up iron sights for ARs. A lower 1/3 cowitness riser will position the optic a little higher, with its center about 1.63-1.65" above the top of the rail. This allows clearance between the red dot when centered, and the top of an A2 style fixed front sight post.

You probably understand that no red dot sight is going to provide any type of cowitness with the stock iron sights on the PCC 9. Most people are going to prefer a "micro" sized red dot sight without a riser (or with a low riser) on the PCC 9 in order to keep the sight axis as close to the bore axis as possible. This allows for a better cheek weld. It also reduces the offset between the sight axis and the bore axis. There will always be some sight offset regardless, but the less offset there is, the less you will need to hold over your intended point of impact at ranges less than your zero range.

On the other hand, if you really want to use a 3X magnifier behind your red dot sight, most that I have seen and owned all have a height above rail to the optic center line of around 1.64-1.65" or so. So if you wanted to use one, you would pretty much need to use a red dot sight with a riser of at least "exact cowitness" height and a "lower 1/3 cowitness" riser would be better still. Understanding that these terms really don't apply to the Ruger PCC 9.

Last edited by pblanc; August 22nd, 2019 at 12:13 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 05:15 PM   #4
 
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One thing to consider about a magnifier is that it will also magnify the size of the dot. If you are running a 3 MOA dot, you are covering 3" of target at 100 yards. If you add a 3x magnifier, you will be covering 9" of target at 100 yards. To me, that is a whole lot of target to cover and still expect any type of accuracy. I tried a Vortex 3x magnifier for exactly on range trip. After two magazines it was off the rifle and shipped back to Amazon. Never again. If you want magnification, there are several good 1-4x to 1-8x scopes that do a much better job.

As far as dots go, I recently received a Sig Romeo5 mounted on a 10/22 TD. Great sight, great features, excellent battery life. I also think the above mentioned Burris FF3 may work very well. The Bushnell TRS-25 is serviceable, but the battery life kills it for me.

All that being said, I'm going to run the iron sights until my eyes won't allow me to. Anything over 100yd is asking a lot from a 9mm carbine and the iron sights work excellent to that distance if you eyes can take it.
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Old August 25th, 2019, 05:39 PM   #5
 
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I went with a Holosun HS403b & the high rise mount. With the low mount the iron sights showed up on the lower 1/3 of the glass. Since the iron sights are on the barrel & the receiver is higher than the barrel, itís difficult to get a co-witness with an rmr to the iron sights. With the riser I can still use the iron sights if needed. Yeah I know with the riser it makes it impossible to get a good cheek weld but I still can make shots out to 100yds on a 6Ē gong, have to get a bench rest to hit my 4Ē gong. Iíve thought about getting a 3x magnifier myself but realistically I canít see ever needing to hit past 100yds. Plus I donít think the folks at my range would like me to shoot a 9mm out to our farthest range of 200yds because of the lead reclamation deal they have with the proprietors of the land theyíre renting from. At 50yds this thing is a tack driver, for me itís the most effective range for the carbine.


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Old August 30th, 2019, 04:53 PM   #6
 
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It's a lot personal preference. I had a strikefire red dot on my PC9 for a while but just wasn't really working for me. The cowitness with the ghost ring was not great and distracted me from doing good shots (entirely my bad).Currently trying a Crossfire II. Found a couple of low see thru rings so getting good cheek weld and fast ghost ring sight acquisition for shorter range shots. The 1-4 mag is more than enough and works better than red dot with flip out mag add on.

Again all personal. The best part is the shooting, the hardware is nice but software (that's us) in the equation is what makes the biggest difference.
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Old August 30th, 2019, 05:37 PM   #7
 
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I would like to get a red dot for my carbines.
Could anyone tell me the retail prices of some good ones?
I don't have a lot of $$ to spend right now ,and I want to get a good one that wont cost me an arm & a leg
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 02:34 AM   #8
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I just returned a reflex red dot sight that represented my first attempt to set up my PC Carbine. I've now decided to go with the Sig Sauer Romeo5. I believe I will be very pleased with it, and its raised mount will also provide me with a co-witness opportunity. For under $125 on Amazon, it's also a great bargain...

Last edited by KMO; October 2nd, 2019 at 02:47 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 05:39 AM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okstatefan View Post
One thing to consider about a magnifier is that it will also magnify the size of the dot. If you are running a 3 MOA dot, you are covering 3" of target at 100 yards. If you add a 3x magnifier, you will be covering 9" of target at 100 yards. To me, that is a whole lot of target to cover and still expect any type of accuracy. I tried a Vortex 3x magnifier for exactly on range trip. After two magazines it was off the rifle and shipped back to Amazon. Never again. If you want magnification, there are several good 1-4x to 1-8x scopes that do a much better job.

As far as dots go, I recently received a Sig Romeo5 mounted on a 10/22 TD. Great sight, great features, excellent battery life. I also think the above mentioned Burris FF3 may work very well. The Bushnell TRS-25 is serviceable, but the battery life kills it for me.

All that being said, I'm going to run the iron sights until my eyes won't allow me to. Anything over 100yd is asking a lot from a 9mm carbine and the iron sights work excellent to that distance if you eyes can take it.
A 3 MOA dot does not become a 9 MOA dot behind a 3X magnifier. The dot image and the target image are magnified proportionately. Yes, the dot looks 3 times as big but it still covers 3 inches of the magnified target at 100 yards.

The SIG Romeo 5 is a pretty nice RDS. The dot size really does seem to be about 2 MOA with little tendency to enlarge or starburst at higher intensity. And the motion-detection, instant-on feature works very well.
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Old October 2nd, 2019, 08:02 AM   #10
 
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Take a look at the Vortex Crossfire RD1.

This is a well-built basic 2 MOA red dot that comes with some very nice features and the Vortex lifetime warranty. In the box you get the optic, manual, bikini style lens caps, T-10 Torx wrench, CR 2032 battery, a high mount, a low mount and a lens cleaning cloth. The optic itself is smaller in size and only weights 5.2 ounces. Features include the following:
  • 11 Brightness Settings
  • Windage and Elevation Adjustments
  • Raised Adjustment Tool built into top of Windage and Elevation Caps
  • Unlimited Eye Relief
  • No Magnification
  • Parallax Free
  • 2 MOA red Dot
  • Very Good Multi-Coated Glass
  • Waterproof
  • Hard Anodized Matte Finish
  • 7000 Hour Battery Life on mid setting
  • Length of Unit 2.5 inches
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Old October 15th, 2019, 04:48 PM   #11
 
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C-more is my choice due to interchangeable modules i own a primary arms 1.5x4x30mm scope also when needed
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Old October 15th, 2019, 05:41 PM   #12
 
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I’ve seen Romeo 5’s down to $119.00 and Vortex Crossfire down to $99.00 Good time to add a red dot with these prices! I already have 2 and that’s working great for my 50yd. outdoor range.
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Old October 16th, 2019, 03:12 PM   #13
 
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I have two Sig Romeo 5s. They are a bit more expensive than some, but Sig has a lifetime warranty, and the “Motac” feature turns it off after about 2 minutes to preserve battery power, but turns on instantly with movement. Keep one on the 10-22TD, and the other on a Marlin 1894FG, and really like them.
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Old October 28th, 2019, 05:18 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafetyFirst View Post
Take a look at the Vortex Crossfire RD1.

This is a well-built basic 2 MOA red dot that comes with some very nice features and the Vortex lifetime warranty. In the box you get the optic, manual, bikini style lens caps, T-10 Torx wrench, CR 2032 battery, a high mount, a low mount and a lens cleaning cloth. The optic itself is smaller in size and only weights 5.2 ounces. Features include the following:
  • 11 Brightness Settings
  • Windage and Elevation Adjustments
  • Raised Adjustment Tool built into top of Windage and Elevation Caps
  • Unlimited Eye Relief
  • No Magnification
  • Parallax Free
  • 2 MOA red Dot
  • Very Good Multi-Coated Glass
  • Waterproof
  • Hard Anodized Matte Finish
  • 7000 Hour Battery Life on mid setting
  • Length of Unit 2.5 inches
Vortex just upgraded the Crossfire:
50,000 hour battery life and night-vision compatibility at the lowest two settings.
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