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help im a noob on scopes

This is a discussion on help im a noob on scopes within the Optics forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Originally Posted by ngashooter ...Rimfire scopes typically have parallax fixed at 50yds. Scopes intended for center fire rifles are usually set to be parallax free ...


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Old June 15th, 2019, 09:07 AM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngashooter View Post
...Rimfire scopes typically have parallax fixed at 50yds. Scopes intended for center fire rifles are usually set to be parallax free at 100yds...
I believe more hunting-style centerfire rifle scopes are factory set for 150 yds. With typical variable power scopes up to 9x, parallax is minimal out to around 250 yds. The 50 yds setting for rimfire scopes is usually good out to 100 yds. Higher powered variable scopes often have objective adjustment for parallax at long range.

The 2-7x variable scopes are usually ideal for most typical centerfire and rimfire hunting ranges. Two issues in the field with higher magnification settings is reduced field of view, and any slight movement of the rifle is greatly accentuated in the sight picture. Another thing about higher powered variable scopes is their increased bulk and weight.



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Old September 9th, 2019, 05:37 AM   #17
 
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So after reading ALL this twice I find myself a tad confused. And BTW I DO have the same question but will word it in 2 parts differently.

If the sun the moon the stars all line up, am I to understand that it is NOT a good idea to expect any sort of accuracy from a 10-22 at 100 yards?

I recently bought the same rifle as the OP for the sole reason of plinking targets primarily and varmint hunting if one is stupid enough to cross my path at close range.

SO if it is true the effective range is NOT 100 yards out, what can I expect out of my rifle for reasonable accuracy and "What scope would you recommend hat doesn't take all my social security check lol
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Old September 9th, 2019, 06:56 AM   #18
 
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I wish I had paid attention to the close focus / parallax spec before I bought mine.

I bought the VX-3 #66530 for my 243 varmint rifle.
This is a 6.5-20x40 scope with a 75 yard parallax adjustment.
It is a very nice scope, and works perfectly at its intended long distances.

The out-of-production #55152 was the same specs, but a 10 yard parallax.
There was still a few available when I bought mine.. but I succumbed to the "newer is better" illusion.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 07:22 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Grey_1 View Post
So after reading ALL this twice I find myself a tad confused. And BTW I DO have the same question but will word it in 2 parts differently.

If the sun the moon the stars all line up, am I to understand that it is NOT a good idea to expect any sort of accuracy from a 10-22 at 100 yards?

I recently bought the same rifle as the OP for the sole reason of plinking targets primarily and varmint hunting if one is stupid enough to cross my path at close range.

SO if it is true the effective range is NOT 100 yards out, what can I expect out of my rifle for reasonable accuracy and "What scope would you recommend hat doesn't take all my social security check lol
The answer to your question sort of depends on what you call "accuracy". A good part of the problem is the relative inaccuracy of 22 LR ammunition. The cartridge does not have a very large powder charge, so it is pretty much running out of steam at 80-100 yards. The projectile has a lousy ballistic coefficient and it can be dramatically affected by wind. Moreover, commercial 22 LR ammo is often not precisely loaded wrt powder charge. Relatively small differences in powder charge from cartridge to cartridge are going to make a significant difference if you want to shoot at 100 yards or beyond. You might have a rifle that can shoot 1/2" groups at 25 yards, but that doesn't mean you can expect to consistently get 2" groups at 100 yards.

With standard velocity ammunition, if you zero your scope somewhere in the 25-50 yard range, you are probably going to see a greater than 6 1/2" drop at 100 yards. With high velocity ammo you might reduce that to 5 1/2" or a bit more.

I can certainly hit 6" steel plates at 100 yards with my scoped Ruger 10/22 with some regularity shooting decent commercial non-match ammunition, but I would never expect to shoot 2" groups or better.

As for scopes, I think that variable magnification scopes in the 2-7X or 3-9X make sense for most applications, or if you want something a bit more compact, a fixed magnification 4X scope. If you plan to shoot at shorter distances of 25 yards or less, as most 22 LR rifle owners do at some point in time, I think a scope with an adjustable objective or side parallax adjustment capability at the erector is definitely worthwhile as it will allow a much sharper target focus, in addition to reducing parallax error.


I have 2 Hawke Sport Optics Vantage scopes with adjustable objectives that have worked very well for me. One is a fixed magnification 4x32 for which I paid less than $100. The other is a 3-9x40 for which I paid a few dollars more than $100. I also own several Nikon scopes and I judge them to be a good deal. Although I do not own it, I have heard many praise the Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 EFR rimfire with adjustable objective.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 07:51 AM   #20
 
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Thank you very much for the comprehensive answer.

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Originally Posted by pblanc View Post
The answer to your question sort of depends on what you call "accuracy". A good part of the problem is the relative inaccuracy of 22 LR ammunition. The cartridge does not have a very large powder charge, so it is pretty much running out of steam at 80-100 yards. The projectile has a lousy ballistic coefficient and it can be dramatically affected by wind. Moreover, commercial 22 LR ammo is often not precisely loaded wrt powder charge. Relatively small differences in powder charge from cartridge to cartridge are going to make a significant difference if you want to shoot at 100 yards or beyond. You might have a rifle that can shoot 1/2" groups at 25 yards, but that doesn't mean you can expect to consistently get 2" groups at 100 yards.

With standard velocity ammunition, if you zero your scope somewhere in the 25-50 yard range, you are probably going to see a greater than 6 1/2" drop at 100 yards. With high velocity ammo you might reduce that to 5 1/2" or a bit more.

I can certainly hit 6" steel plates at 100 yards with my scoped Ruger 10/22 with some regularity shooting decent commercial non-match ammunition, but I would never expect to shoot 2" groups or better.

As for scopes, I think that variable magnification scopes in the 2-7X or 3-9X make sense for most applications, or if you want something a bit more compact, a fixed magnification 4X scope. If you plan to shoot at shorter distances of 25 yards or less, as most 22 LR rifle owners do at some point in time, I think a scope with an adjustable objective or side parallax adjustment capability at the erector is definitely worthwhile as it will allow a much sharper target focus, in addition to reducing parallax error.


I have 2 Hawke Sport Optics Vantage scopes with adjustable objectives that have worked very well for me. One is a fixed magnification 4x32 for which I paid less than $100. The other is a 3-9x40 for which I paid a few dollars more than $100. I also own several Nikon scopes and I judge them to be a good deal. Although I do not own it, I have heard many praise the Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 EFR rimfire with adjustable objective.
This is a VERY helpful summary of many posts. BTW my idea of accuracy is getting it on paper in some semblance of closeness lol
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Old September 9th, 2019, 11:13 AM   #21
 
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Cool

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Originally Posted by bwinters View Post
Nikon's rimfire scopes area good value. I personally swear by Leupold though. I would get a 2x7 instead of a 3x9. Lower bottome power.
Yes, agree completely. I've got a Nikon 3-9 X 40 EFR on my CZ, and I've had either a Weaver 2-7, or a Weaver 4X on my 10-22 for years, and have found both of them excellent, bright and clear.
If I had it to do again though, I'd go with the Leupold. Their .22 scopes are quality, sized properly for a .22 rifle, so it doesn't look like someone's about to launch a cruise missile from the gun. AND, they are made in the USA.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 12:50 PM   #22
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Grey_1, After you get 10 posts and promoted to PFC, you will be able to access the forum E-Library where I posted a document titled "Scope Dope". Here's a link: https://rugerforum.net/e-library/61505-scope-dope.html It goes into considerable detail and should help you understand scopes better plus it will help you make a sound decision on which scope to buy for your particular application.

As for 10/22s. They are very fun guns that tend to operate flawless with the right ammo. Their intended purpose is NOT a 100 yard target rifle, rather they are intended more for "plinking" at distances up to 50 yards. Sometimes you get lucky and find a 10/22 that will hold a decent group at 100 yards but most peter out at 60~70 yards. Why? Simply stated …. bullet damage. It is common for any semi-auto to damage bullets when feeding. Also, the quality of Ruger factory barrels leaves a lot to be desired. All it takes is for just one of the lands or grooves to be dimensionally off a very small amount to make the bullet out of balance. Rifling will spin the bullet and keep it stable for 50~60 yards and by then the spin rate has decayed due to air resistance. Once the bullet starts to lose stability, it will yaw and soon spiral out of control. Another trait with most semi-auto 22s and especially 10/22s is a "generous chamber". The chamber is purposely made oversized so the gun will feed most brands of ammo reliably. 10/22s also have generous headspace (distance between the case head and bolt face) to prevent "slam fires". When you have a generous chamber and/or generous headspace, the cartridge is loose in the chamber and does not align perfectly with the bore so the bullet gets started ever so slightly off center, Again, this will damage bullets and make them fly goofy after they reach a downrange distance where the spin rate has decayed beyond stability, usually about 60~70 yards. Last, the thin 18.5" factory barrels tend to be affected by harmonics, which simply means fired bullets make the muzzle oscillate, thus not starting bullets off in the exact same path.

So, if you want to shoot nice groups at 100 yards, you would be much better served with a good quality bolt action 22 LR. I have a CZ 452 with a 24 1/2" barrel that will maintain sub-inch groups at 100 yards from a bench rest but with a few caveats …. I use match grade ammo and shoot with no wind. The bolt action feeding system is very simple and can chamber a cartridge with virtually no bullet damage. Further, the barrel is made to a much higher standards so the bore and rifling are more exact thus bullets tend stay stable to much longer distances, plus it has a very snug chamber. I also have a heavily modified 10/22 that will hold decent groups at 100 yards …. but not quite as good as my CZ. It has a .920" match grade 20" bull barrel with a Bentz chamber and snug headspace, which is much tighter than a generous factory chamber but not as snug as my CZ.

Here's my 10/22 "build" with a 3~10x50mm Niko Sterling "Night Eater" scope and a side dial for parallax correction. It has a 20" Green Mountain match grade bull barrel …. no harmonics and virtually no bullet damage. The gun also has a Fajen target rifle stock with fully adjustable pull length and cheek level. With all this extra "stuff", it will shoot almost as well as my CZ 452-2E, providing I use high quality match grade 22 LRs.


Last edited by Iowegan; September 9th, 2019 at 06:05 PM.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 01:41 PM   #23
 
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Here's mine with a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire II on it. I couldn't justify a 200 dollar scope on a 250 dollar rifle. I had a 10/22 when I was around 10 yrs old so I know what it can and can't do.
Also ordered Burris 1" rimfire rings
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Old September 9th, 2019, 05:11 PM   #24
 
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I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet but Ruger includes a Weaver/tip-off rail with every 10/22 that will take any Weaver-type or rimfire specific rings. No need to buy anything else for most scope mounting.

OP: If you don't have it, search the box the rifle came in. It should be there.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 05:28 AM   #25
 
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I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet but Ruger includes a Weaver/tip-off rail with every 10/22 that will take any Weaver-type or rimfire specific rings. No need to buy anything else for most scope mounting.

OP: If you don't have it, search the box the rifle came in. It should be there.
The stock Ruger accessory rail is a combo 3/8" dovetail/Weaver rail. The Weaver slots will accept rings made to mount on either a Picatinny rail or a Weaver rail, so it will work to mount some scopes on the Ruger 10/22.

But if you want to shoot from a prone position, you will likely find that the ocular lens of your scope needs to be positioned much farther forward than the Ruger accessory rail allows. The number of slots on the rail is limited and the spacing is irregular. The front of the rail ends at the front of the receiver and the most forward slot is well behind that. That means that the erector portion of your scope will need to be positioned well aft of the front of the receiver if you are using straight-up scope rings. Unless your scope is very short, this will likely place the ocular lens too far back to permit you to shoot prone with it. If you only plan to shoot standing or from a bench, the stock Ruger rail will likely work.

There are several potential solutions to this problem. There are ring sets which include one "extension ring" that extends an inch or more forward of the "rail grabber" base portion that mounts on the rail. There are also very nice, one-piece cantilevered scope mounts, but they tend to be heavier and considerably more expensive.

A nice option to allow more flexibility in optic mounting, so long as you do not need to use the central 3/8" dovetail portion of the Ruger rail, is to buy an extended Picatinny rail made for the Ruger 10/22 that will mount using the same tapped screw holes on the receiver top. These extend the rail forward to just behind the rear sight dovetail on the barrel. Evolution Gun Works makes a nice one as does Volquartsen. These will allow you to mount most any scope properly using straight-up rings.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 08:44 AM   #26
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pblanc, Good stuff! Just one thing I noticed ….. the Ruger factory scope base works just fine for Weaver type rings or standard 22 tip off rings but the slots are not wide enough for true Picatinny rings. The Picatinny locking slot width is 0.206". The spacing of slot centers is 0.394" and the slot depth is 0.118". The only differences between the Picatinny rail and the similar Weaver rail are the size of these slots and the fact that they are standardized. Weaver rails have a slot width of 0.180", but are not necessarily consistent in the spacing of slot centers. Most Picatinny devices will not fit on Weaver rails, however most Weaver devices will fit a Picatinny rail.

The only time I go prone is when I'm in bed so I always set the scope's position for best eye relief when standing or sitting. I agree, having a Picatinny base with multiple equally spaced slots is a much better idea. I keep experimenting with scope position until I can shoulder my rifle, get a good cheek weld, and get perfect eye relief without having to move my head. In most cases, you just can't do that with a factory scope base. I got lucky with the 10/22 build in my above photo. Turned out the factory scope base worked just fine for a sitting position. This gun is way too heavy to shoot while standing …. at least for this old fart.

Last edited by Iowegan; September 10th, 2019 at 08:49 AM.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 09:22 AM   #27
 
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I could prolly back my scope up a tad. Haven't shot it yet so not sure but it feels good standing up. I used the factory scope base and the Burris 1" rimfire rings fit good. Could be higher as the scope just clears the flip down sight by 1/8 inch.
I'll adjust to it fine me thinks. I don't do prone either, too much cactus out here.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 05:24 PM   #28
 
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if you decide on a scope with adjustable parallax, the side dial is a lot more convenient than the rotating objective
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