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Dan wesson revolver timing?

This is a discussion on Dan wesson revolver timing? within the Gunsmithing forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I do not know if anyone here can help, if not I will have to find a different forum. I inherited a High Standard Sentinel ...


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Old January 15th, 2020, 07:42 PM   #1
 
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Dan wesson revolver timing?

I do not know if anyone here can help, if not I will have to find a different forum. I inherited a High Standard Sentinel MKII .357 Mag revolver. It is the same as a Dan Wesson model 14-1. It is basically a model 14-2 but with the "porkchop" barrel shroud and crane retention. It has not been used in years and I quickly found out why. In checking it out I found the trigger would not return one out every three or four trigger pulls. It stays all the way back. I went through the gun very thoroughly and discovered the prawl or hand is catching on the star. Looking at the gun with the side plate off and the hammer all the way back, the side of the star is proud of the slot where the prawl travels by about .020 to .025 of an inch (depending on which arm of the star). It is almost as if the star needs to be rotated that much further, yet the chambers in the cylinder line up perfectly with the bore. If I remove the prawl, the trigger returns like normal. Is the star out of time? does the prawl need to be shaped a little? The prawl has a little bit of grinding on it from the factory on the side of the tip, right where it is catching the star. I have never had to time a gun before so I am not sure how one would go about checking it. Any help would be appreciated. I will try to post some pics tomorrow.



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Old January 15th, 2020, 08:59 PM   #2
 
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While I can’t help you with your problem, I can suggest a couple places to look for answers. There is a dan wesson forum, and I am told there are alot of good knowledgeable folks on there that may be able to help. The second is the single actions forum. While your gun is not a single action, there are many gunsmiths, professional competitors, and dan wesson fans that frequent this forum. Good luck with your revolver! I am sorry I couldn’t be more help.
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Old January 16th, 2020, 05:19 PM   #3
 
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Here is a picture of the back of the cylinder with the side plate and prawl off. My pick is resting in the grove where the prawl goes and is pointing at the place where the star sticks out and is binding with the prawl.



Here is a pic with the prawl in place and I am pushing down on the prawl. If you look close you can see the prawl is not tight against the side. The tip is being held away by the tip of the star. If it is not tight, when the side plate is on the prawl binds.



And here is a pic of the prawl. You can see where they ground the tip a little from the factory and there is some wear from use/binding (the very shiny area to the left of where my pick is pointing at).



I think the first thing I am going to try is a new trigger return spring. I bought a spring kit from CZ. The Dan Wesson forums has a "Tuning up your 15-2 -- The Average Joe Method" thread, in which they show a side by side picture of the trigger return spring. Mine looks exactly like the wolf reduced power trigger return spring. Hopefully just that will solve my problem. It could also just be a very old spring. Either way, it is a start and worth a try. Ill post results when I get them is the mail.

Ok Just go to this link for the pics:https://photos.app.goo.gl/3hWFu1UjxALv3kHy5

Last edited by notathome; January 16th, 2020 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Edited to get pics to work
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Old January 19th, 2020, 03:44 PM   #4
 
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I searched the Dan Wesson Forums and found others that have had the same problem. They had three possible solutions. The first was the trigger return spring is too weak. This is understandable since the gun is 47 years old. I have ordered a spring kit from CZ but have not received it yet. The second solution was to stone the inside of the frame and side plate and de-burr everything. The machine marks are pretty bad and could be causing a lot of friction. I had already thought of this and had stoned it before posting on this forum. Stoning the rough spots did not solve it for me. The third solution they had was to readjust the trigger over-travel screw. The idea is that if the trigger goes too far back, it pushes the prawl too far up and the prawl goes over the tip of the star. Then it gets caught on its way back down. Sounds familiar. I looked at my over-travel screw and there was a .030 gap between it and the frame when the sear broke. I carefully adjusted it a little at a time until it has approximately a .003 gap. The gun works great now. Hope this might help anyone who might have the same problem.
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Old January 19th, 2020, 05:24 PM   #5
 
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I hope you find a solution. By the way, it is a pawl, without the r.
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Old January 22nd, 2020, 04:28 PM   #6
 
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Thanks for the correction. I was born hard at hearing and can not hear the difference and I always thought it was prawl. Pawl makes more sense.
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Old January 23rd, 2020, 07:23 AM   #7
 
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yes the "pawl" (hand) does come in various sizes (thickness) and are cut , filed,, fit at the time of the guns built, and as you are finding out there are other "things", that can "affect" the way the guns action works, as well as the oldness of the springs or even if they have been altered cut, lightened, etc.......I used to work for and did warranty repair for Dan Wesson Arms back in the 70's, trained at the old school house in Monson Mass, and yes Mr Wesson was my mentor, the old man himself, I spent two weeks with.....
if you may need a" hand" pawl, you can send me an email, still have a few of the older14-15-2 innards around here,,,NO accessories that you get from CZ -USA these days.......they were a good gun and ahead of their time,still got my 15-2VH6 and I would put it up against ANY Colt Python eve built,,,hard to beat "one hole groups"........
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Old January 25th, 2020, 10:35 AM   #8
 
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So, the trigger over travel screw fix worked for about 150 rounds of 38 spl. Then it started acting up again. I brought it home and looked at it again and found the trigger over travel screw had screwed itself in again. I set it where it needs to be and then I super glued it in place. I also replaced the trigger return spring while I had it open. When I put it together, it would not work. This is getting frustrating. I took it apart and noticed the new trigger return spring is made of thicker wire and is holding the pawl/hand out, which is then rubbing on the side plate. I put the trigger return spring that came with the gun when I got it back in and it appears to be working. I do have some questions, maybe rugerguy knows since he used to work on these. Can this gun be dry fired much? The hammer appears to be made of sintered metal and I have no idea how durable that stuff is. Also, can the hammer be re-blued? It has a little rust on its side and the entire gun has seen better days. I am thinking or re-blueing the entire gun. What type of blueing works best for sintered metal? I would like to use hot salts, since I am in the process of building a hot salts re-blueing setup. but IDK if sintered metal will even take blue.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 03:10 PM   #9
 
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I had some more range time with this gun. The trigger was still just a little sticky and did not return with the firm reset like I would prefer. I took it apart and compared the new trigger return spring with the old one. The wire thickness is more, but I was wrong, it is not too big. The reason it was pushing the pawl/hand against the side plate was the spring arm that comes forward to the trigger is parallel to the side plate, whereas the old one was bent lightly toward the centerline of the gun. I carefully bent it just a little so that it seats nicely in its little grove in the trigger and stays there. I put it all back together with the new,slightly modified, spring and tested it and it works great now. Between me and my dad, we have shot it over 500 times since and it has been flawless.
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Old January 29th, 2020, 04:52 AM   #10
 
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Thank you for this well written piece on how keen observation, wit and perseverance can save your day.
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