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Ruger No.1 45-70

This is a discussion on Ruger No.1 45-70 within the Ruger Single-Shot forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; My new Ruger No.1 45-70 hates cast bullets I tried three different brands and it shoots everywhere on the paper 8 to 10" groups. 405gr ...


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Old September 8th, 2010, 07:10 AM   #1
 
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Ruger No.1 45-70

My new Ruger No.1 45-70 hates cast bullets I tried three different brands and it shoots everywhere on the paper 8 to 10" groups. 405gr with COL of 2.550 but no soap. They kept touching lands and just didn't have any accuracy.

After I had shot about 40rds I gave up and went to Hornady 325gr Reveloution rounds and avg with ten rounds 2001fps and with five of the rounds shot a .788" group. What a bullet, what a rifle, I know what I am taking hunting.

I never had a 45-70 that didn't like cast bullets but I do now.

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Old September 8th, 2010, 11:59 AM   #2
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hmmmm.. only 1000+ other sizes, diameters, hardnesses, and lubes BEFORE you can possibly say ANY rifle or pistola "doesn't shoot cast lead bullets." Especially some (likely) crap-made commercial 405.

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Old September 8th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #3
 
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I wouldn't discount cast lead just because it didn't like what you wanted it to like. WAY too many choices in bullets and after one choice you claim it won't shoot 'em.
Check various forums and see what folks with these are using.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 04:34 PM   #4
 
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Your right there are a thousand cast bullets to look thru before I can say that some rifles don't like cast bullets. But I am now 70 and need some hints before I run out of time. I have used Oregon Trail, Meister and Montana Bullet works so now what else can I try. Although at the cost of cast bullet now I might just have to use jacketed as the price is pretty close.
The only problem with that is some gun clubs and ranges only want lead fired in their matches.

Thanks guys for the suggestions so I keep looking.

"fk"
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Old September 8th, 2010, 04:59 PM   #5
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Oregon Trail, Meister and Montana Bullet works ALL totally CRAPOLA in the standard .458 405 bullet. NONE of these is what anyone would call a precision bullet.

you obviously don't cast your own bullets and buying high quality cast bullets is virtually the same price as jacketed bullets these days.

This guy makes SUPERB bullets (they are machine made, but are extremely consistent and almost as accurate as you can make yourself). Wait a couple days, the gentleman is a bit older and doesn't email back isntantly..

I would buy the 500 grain (even though your rifle is 1x20) sized .459 with his blue lube (which is fine)

47-70 Soft Cast Bullets For Sale
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Old September 10th, 2010, 06:20 AM   #6
 
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Ruger #1 45-70

I am 71 and am running out of time also. To save time I slugged my barrel (.4585) and cast a 405 bullet and sized to .461. The groups I get would make angels sing. Sizing is a major factor that you don't often get from commercial cast bullets. Try it.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #7
 
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I think I discovered the problem with the cast bullets, the main problem is the Ruger No. l is right to print dimensions I mean is dead on, the bore is .450 and the grove diameter is right at .4583. What does this mean, well the taper in the bullet from the front to the ridge must always be under .450. The throat measures .074 long from the cannulere ridge and if any dimension is over .450 after that it hits the lands and who know what all it does. All of my other 45-70's are not that close and shoot fine with the cast bullets all except for the Oregon Trail Cast. If you measure it beyond the .074 dimension it measures from .452 to .454 for another .030 to .060 and hits all the lands.
All the meisters from the ridge on measure no more than .447 so it always misses the lands. So I will try them again.

I called Oregon Trail and they are sending their loading and dimensional data to see what I need to do. If I can't make their cast bullet work they will give me my money back, you can't ask for more than that.

The Meister bullet in my 1895 45-70 shoots less that 1" groups at 100yds from a rest so I disagree with the gentleman that said they were all crapola.
Opinions are like relatives and everyone has them good and bad. I have 20ea Meister bullets loaded up with 32grs of 4198 and a COL of 2.540 so after I try them I will report back.
Thank you for all the responses and help.

"fk"
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Old September 11th, 2010, 04:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "fk" View Post
IThe Meister bullet in my 1895 45-70 shoots less that 1" groups at 100yds from a rest so I disagree with the gentleman that said they were all crapola.

"fk"

ANYONE who claims they can shoot ANY cast lead bullet in ANY standard factory 45-70 rifle into "less than 1" inch groups" at 100 yards MUCH LESS with a MACHINE MADE bullet shipped in a box bouncing around with 249 other bullets is either delusional or is talking about two-shot groups.

I have a very accurate Shiloh SHarps 45-70 rifle set up for BPCR and with an expensive NOSE-POUR mold, pan lubed bullets, etc. etc. I would NEVER bet anyone that I could shoot a group smaller than 1.25 Inches of a rest and bags at 100 yards and then I would cross my fingers VERY HARD).

I would GLADLY put 1000 bucks in cash down to 100 dollars any day of the week that nobody using any commercial 405 grain cast bullet they want to buy can hold under 1.5" inches (much less under and inch!!) in 45-70 at 100 yards for 5 shots.
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Old September 11th, 2010, 05:21 AM   #9
 
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Hold your breath for about 5 minutes and you will see the light.

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Old September 12th, 2010, 12:47 AM   #10
 
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1. Always wanted at Ruger #1.
2. Because of reading, I'm saving for a Browning 1885 Traditional hunter in .45-70.
3. Recently went to an estate auction (collector) of of several Ruger #1's. What a LET DOWN!! It included Ruger #1's from .223 to .45-70s to 300 magnums to .458s ! I checked FIVE OF THE SEVEN calibers I was interested in and when the actions were closed, the falling blocks COULD B E "WIGGLED" side-to-side and front-to-back!
4. WHAT? This engineer EXPECTED those blocks TO BE TIGHT! DAMN!
5. PLEASE tell me that these guns were worn out or RUGER #1s just cannot shoot accurately if the falling blocks can "wiggle" when the actions are closed?
Peace and disappointed,
WLeoB
Canton,MI
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Old September 12th, 2010, 04:44 AM   #11
 
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I certainly can't challenge your engineer credentials, BUT most rifles I'm aware of headspace on the cartridge, not on the rear of the barrel. I'm PRETTY sure that Ruger would not let any Number Ones out the door if the the headsapce wasn't correct.
There are a multitude of Number One owners out there (myself included) who can guarantee you that ANY Number One can be made to shoot, with the right factory or handloaded ammunition; just like any other production rifle on the market.
I wish I were at that estate sale with some cash in my pocket. At least one of those awful, offending Number Ones would have been taken care of for you.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #12
 
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I cast my own boolits and the targets shown are a RCBS 45-325gc and a 457122hp both drop 330gr from 50/50 WW/PL. I size them to .458 & lube with commercial red from White Lable Lubes. I use Trailboss and IMR4759 and this was my first starting load. I was also shooting a 32mag, testing some loads for it, those are the small holes. I got more work to do with it. I sorta got disgusted because I couldn't hit the circle and got my #1 out. I was shooting @ 25yds off hand with a Weaver K4 and a Ruger #1. I haven't streached it out to 100yds yet but if I can keep 5 shots inside a paper plate at 100yds off hand, I'm going hunting. I walk & stalk a lot, sometimes sit for a while by a tree or rock. I rarely get a shot over 100yds, most are within 75yds.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 02:15 PM   #13
 
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I shoot the Lee 340 gr. sized .459, lubed with Javelina Alox over SR4759. A fun shooting load @ 1500 FPS ten ft. from the muzzle. Factory sights and fully repeatable 8" groups of 3 shots out to 200 meters. My alloy is air cooled wheel weights and I neck size my cases only enough to firmly hold the bullet, no crimp. MMMMMMMMMMgooooooddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old September 29th, 2010, 11:25 AM   #14
 
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Solved problem.

Solved my problem with cast bullets, it was the bullet itself that was to large. The throat of the No.1 is .074 long and when it hits that dimension the lands are .450. The Oregon Trail cast bullet was larger than .450 when the throat ran out. It measured anywhere from .451 to .455 for at least .030 in to the lands. Called Oregon Trail and they had me send cast bullets back and gave me my money back.

I bought some Meister Cast bullets and they work fine.

"fk"
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Old October 5th, 2010, 02:14 PM   #15
 
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Well "FK", I too am running out of time, and after much reading - printed and on the forums - I decided I wanted to do one of the last things that can reasonably be done as per reloading for hunting, make my own boolits.

I have loaded and hunted with my own loads since the mid or late 60s, so figured I had better get with it before it was too late.

Have cast for year, but almost always for handguns.

Now, the Marlins look fine, and there are many Marlin lovers shoot'in the 45/70.

However, there was this beautiful #1 - s 45/70 residing at an area hock shop which finally came home at a really fair price.

The rifle itself is in very good condition and the barrel is a beauty.

The throat is VERY short, so did have it open up JUST A TAD.

So, I started with a 405 RCBS cast until I got my LBT 350gr WFN mold and while not seeing, as yet, the groups which match my "J" bullet rifles, am getting groups that should be deadly to the 200yd range or a bit more.

I'm not trying to make a 458 out of my 45/70, but like the flattening of the rainbow arch of typical old Springfield loadings with an added 1000fps I am safely obtaining in the #1.

The load I am planning to load for this season is with RL 7, a bit below the max. listed Hornady load with their 350gr "J" bullet, but the beauty of the thing is the cast boolit is leaving the end of the barrel at over 200fps faster then the same wt. "J" bullet.

Come this winter or next Spring, I may try some H322 as it seems like it finds favor with quite a number of folk, but to this point I have shot 3031 which I found to be so/so and taking up to much case room, H4895, H4198 and IMR4198 which I though I go with until the RL7 showed much better velocity and equal or a touch better groups.

Leading? What leading? The barrel shows only minor traces of leading, even after firing 40 - 50 rounds and it cleans out with little effort.

Oh yes, I love #1s, but hate Alexander Henry forends, so the 45/70 now sports a beautiful ebony tip. TALK about CLASS!!!!!!!!!!

The last #1 I had with that forend, got the contrasting walnut tip which was classy but NOT AS CLASSY as the ebony.

WAY COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Last edited by Crusty Deary Old Coot; October 5th, 2010 at 06:12 PM.
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