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New Model Blackhawk issue

This is a discussion on New Model Blackhawk issue within the Ruger Single Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; I just purchased a NIB .45 colt NM Blackhawk. The cylinder pin seems to be a PIA to get it to slide out let alone ...


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Old July 17th, 2013, 05:35 AM   #1
 
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New Model Blackhawk issue

I just purchased a NIB .45 colt NM Blackhawk.
The cylinder pin seems to be a PIA to get it to slide out let alone the fact you can not remove it since the case ejector grip is there, and even more of a PIA when you go to slide it back in and get the cylinder lined up.
I have dismantled it, cleaned it oiled it with minimal improvement.
Is this pin difficulty normal? I may check out another one at the gun shop to compare.
On my Ruger SS .22/.22mag. the pin slides in and out with no problem, though it does clear the ejector so it removes completely.
Thanks for any help.



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Old July 17th, 2013, 06:04 AM   #2
 
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As far as pulling it out, seems to work better if you push the release button, pull the pin out about half an inch, then release the button and pull it out the rest of the way.

When pushing the pin back in, keep the loading gate open. Hope that helps.

Last edited by Bozz48; July 17th, 2013 at 07:12 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 06:14 AM   #3
 
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I have a .357 Blackhawk only a few months old. That pin can be difficult to pull. I push the release and turn the cylinder as I pull it. I find it helps to lube the center hole in the cylinder after cleaning it. I also put a tiny bit of lube inside the hole in the frame where the release is located

Putting the pin back in the cylinder can be a pain as the cylinder has to be lined up perfectly. As was mentioned, I keep the loading gate open.

Things get better with practice and as the parts wear together.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 03:48 PM   #4
 
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My base pin, on my 4-5/8" large frame BH .45 convertible, won't clear the ejector button, either.
I guess I should call Ruger.
Or, I COULD get a Belt Mountain base pin.
Of course, that costs money.

Both of my BH are bleeding, raging hemorrhoids to remove/install the base pins.
Installation is definitely more frustrating than removal.
Then again, if they were a loose, sloppy fit, I'd be very displeased.

Last edited by Jaymo; July 17th, 2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #5
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Quiet 1, Sorry, the only standard base pins that will clear the ejector and come out are Single-Sixes because the cylinder and frame is shorter (shorter base pin). All Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks with the standard base pins can't be removed unless you remove the ejector shroud (one screw in front).

Diehard, Yes, these base pins can be a pain to remove. Most of my Rugers are no problem but I do have a stainless 357 BH that WAS very tight. Not only WAS it tight, it had a half moon cut on the flange so it will clear the barrel. Every time I pulled it out, the half moon cut would get stuck and scratch the bottom of the barrel. Me and the bench grinder fixed that ... no more flange.

Here's something you can try ... struggle with the base pin until you can pull it out and remove the cylinder. With the cylinder out, try putting the base pin back in. I found with my SS 357 BH, there was a bind when the end of the base pin started into the rear of the frame. Turned out, the hole for the base pin was not drilled perfectly straight. I tore the gun down and removed the cylinder frame and hammer then used a 1/4" drill bit from the rear of the frame to true up the hole ... just a tiny bit of removed metal made a huge difference. Now my base pin slide in or out with ease and doesn't bind up on the flange.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 07:19 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
it had a half moon cut on the flange so it will clear the barrel. Every time I pulled it out, the half moon cut would get stuck and scratch the bottom of the barrel. Me and the bench grinder fixed that ... no more flange.
Hehe same here, chucked it in the drill press and took the grinder to it.

Diehard, one thing that might be a good thing, the gun is new and with that pin being tight it's likely to contribute to less clearance in the cylinder to frame fit, and it may be more accurate because of it. I would shoot it a while and see if it behaves a little better after a couple hundred rounds. People spend a lot of money on oversize base pins, just so they can take up slack and have the gun tightened up. It may just fix itself with some range time.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 08:41 PM   #7
 
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I've been thinking about chucking mine in the lathe and turning that flange off.
Also thinking about parting off enough of the end of the base pin to allow removal.
Maybe part it off at the first groove from the tip.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 07:03 AM   #8
 
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Thanks

Thank you to all for the info and ideas.
Yes I guess the best thing to do is to shoot it and see how it does.
I usually remove the ejector shroud and clean/lube the spring so really the complete removal of it is no big deal.
I also will try the suggestion of pushing the release button, pulling the pin part way and releasing the button.
I just was spoiled by the other Ruger.
This is a great forum!
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Old July 18th, 2013, 07:18 AM   #9
 
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It loosens up and improves with time. I've had my stainless blackhawk 357 for a few months, put about 800 rounds through it.
As you know, that tip is spring loaded to put pressure against the transfer bar keeping it back and clear of the firing pin.

After using the gun for awhile and lubing the pin after each cleaning, now when I push the pin release button, that spring pushes the pin forward a short distance.

By the way, I have a small bottle of Tri Flow teflon lube (sold in bicycle stores).
After cleaning my Ruger revolvers I always soak a Q-tip with this stuff and put a light coating on the pawl, cylinder ratchet teeth, center pin, and in the holes in the frame where the pin passes back to the transfer bar.
I think this stuff helps these parts to work smoothly.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #10
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New guns are tight!

All my single actions have had sticky base pins when new, some more sticky than others. They've all gotten better with break-in.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #11
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Quiet 1, I can't believe the short Vaquero base pin will work properly in a normal Blackhawk. Look at your photo ... the lock notch for the base pin release is much farther forward on the shorter pin. That means when the base pin is locked in, the spring loaded internal plunger won't push the transfer bar back to keep it from stubbing on the firing pin. Further, if the shorter base pin is locked in position, there isn't enough length to get a good purchase in the rear frame hole. Not a good thing!
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Old July 18th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Quiet 1, I can't believe the short Vaquero base pin will work properly in a normal Blackhawk. Look at your photo ... the lock notch for the base pin release is much farther forward on the shorter pin. That means when the base pin is locked in, the spring loaded internal plunger won't push the transfer bar back to keep it from stubbing on the firing pin. Further, if the shorter base pin is locked in position, there isn't enough length to get a good purchase in the rear frame hole. Not a good thing!
Oh man, Iowegan. I really owe you sir. Based on your comment I went and took another CLOSE look. I removed the cylinder and ejector rod assembly so I could see and "feel" more precisely.

And sure enough, while the NV pin locks in place and has a tiny in and out movement, about 1/16". It's enough to feel the spring's resistance when "pushed in".
However, it's not enough for the tip's spring to apply pressure against the transfer bar.

The longer base pin, exactly as you postulate, when in and locked also has about 1/16" in and out movement, but it always maintains "pressure" against the transfer bar. Guess which base pin is in the gun now.

Sorry for the "misinformation" I previously posted. I'm going to remove those posts so no one get's confused.

Thanks again, Iowegan. You are my lama in all things Ruger.

That's lama as in Ogden Nash's; “A one-l lama, he’s a priest; a two-ll llama, he’s a beast…” Thank you, amigo.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #13
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Quiet 1,
Quote:
Guess which base pin is in the gun now.
Uh ... Single-Six? Nope, too short. Standard Blackhawk?

Clue: The Mid-frame models have a cylinder frame about 1/10" shorter than a standard frame so the base pin has to be shorter too. I just saved you from the deadly miscock condition ... send money ... no lamas please.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #14
 
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I would oil it and take it out and put it in a few hundred times and then check.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #15
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Quiet 1, OK ... the lama thing was bad enough but the signature line is over the top.

BTW, do you know the difference between a lama and a llama? One of them got the L beat out of it. Actually, a "Lama" is a wild animal whereas a "Llama" is a domesticated lama. I'm not into Tibet stuff so I'll take your word for that other lama meaning.
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