Sal1950

I've never had a sticky case issues with 454s in my S&W 460. I don't load them real heavy, Hornady XTP 300g over 25g of 2400 or Hornady XTP 250g over 28g of 2400. Those loads are fun to shoot and will take any game in North America. I also shoot a lot of 45 LC in it but make sure I clean the chambers well after.
I'm with the guys that vote for the 45-454, the 44 mag just does get any respect any more. LOL
Betting on a crud ring for the sticky extraction. Get a 50 cal bore brush, attach it to a variable speed drill, lube up the chambers and brush good with Hoppes 9 and spin the brush at a slow speed in each for the chambers for 30 seconds or so. Dry them off and inspect with a bore light, if completely smooth and free of any crud all the way to the chamber throat camphor your all set.
Sal

Tommi T

Hi,
I just read the discussion on the srh 454 vs the srh 44 and have a few comments to make. I've owned and shot a lot of heavy handguns over the last 40 years and am convinced that most of the trepidation over large caliber guns is intimidation over the blast. Obviously, it is very important to start with a 22 or other low recoiling caliber to learn how to shoot effectively but over time I think anyone can shoot most anything out there without too much trauma. I currently shoot 357, 44 mag, 454, 460, and 500 (both 8 in and 4 in) and none of them has hurt me except the 460 (in an encore). That sucker kicks. I magna ported it and use it for hunting here in Delaware. The recoil was tamed for me with a set of Packmyer grips. When I got my 454 I shot it a few times and thought it wasn't so bad, but then noticed I had a sore wrist. The recoil is sharper for me than the srh 44. I put a srh alasken grip on the gun and that helped a lot. For scopes. I have leupold 2x handgun scopes on all my scoped guns except the 460. It wears a bushnell elete 3200 variable. Scope magnification is a big factor in shooting a handgun. Higher magnification makes it really hard to hold a gun staedy even with a rest, and if you arn't planning to use the gun much over 100 yars, whats the point? The naked eye can differentiate 2 inches a 100 yards and you have a kill zone of about 10 inches on a broadside deer. After all this, bottom line is that there isn't anything in north america (or the world) that hasn't been killed with a 44 mag and appropriate ammunition. The bigger guns are fun, but they arn't necessary. A 2x scope is all you need ( I say need because at 68 years old my eyes don't like open sights too well). Hand load is a necessity if you want shoot much. Its easy as long as you NEVER deviate from data published by a powder or bullet company like Hodgens. Good luck and don't sweat the choice. Either the 454 or the 44 will do the job. But you gotta practice A lot.

pistlhntr

Thanks!

Sal, tell me about that 460 s+w. Price range? Advantages? It seems to shoot a wide array of ammo. Might make a great 2nd gun after the 44Mag.

I am leaning 44Mag SRHH for first hunting pistol.

Tommi, et al, tell me about other handguns for hunting big game that exceed the 454, that would be a better pair to match up w/ the 44Mag.

However, the question is why go any bigger than 454 for anything?

It seems the 44Mag is the biggest I should start w/, and has plenty of affordable ammo options , especially re-loading.

Tommi, why wouldn't I put a bushnell 3200 elite variable on a SRHH? The price is not much more than a Burris 2x, and not more than a Lupld. 2X. ?

Otherwise, I am looking at an Ultradot 30.

Also, any advice on a trail gun that I could also use to take deer at under 50 yards w/ iron sights? I am looking at the sp101 4" barrel in 357 mag. Or maybe the 454/45...

fungun

my advice would be to make your life more simple and stick to one caliber for both guns since ultimately they are both intended for hunting big game.

Sal1950

pistlhntr,
The S&W 460s are built on Smith's largest X frame, same frame used for the 500. It is a big, heavy handcannon! They come in a number of barrel lengths and a couple quality levels with the std models and the Performance Center tuned model. The 460 round itself is a lenghtened 454, which it self is a lengthened 45 LC so it can shoot any of the three calibers.
I have the 460V model (the V standing for 5" barrel) and like it very much. With the size and weight of the gun even fairly hot 45LCs feel like 38spls recoil wise. The 460 caliber itself has the crown for the highest velocity handgun caliber in normal production. CorBons 200 gr round will come out of the 8" barrel model at 2,300 fps. Buffalo Bore sells a 360g load that will do 1900 fps. These rounds are not for the recoil shy.
A great hunting - fun gun that is extremely versatile in caliber and recoil.
Not cheap, the 460V like mine is about the least expensive at $1319 MSRP, got mine about 18 months ago for $1070
Product: Model 460V Revolver - 5"
Sal

Tommi T

Hi,
Theres not a thing wrong with the bushnell 3200 elete scope. I have 2 of them on encores. However, at powers higher than 2x the apparent hand shake and smaller field of view makes it harder for me to shoot unless I have a very firm rest. The human eye unaided can distinguish 2 inches at 100 yards and a deer's vitals are about 10 inches a 100 yards, so what's the point of higher magnification unless you want to shoot well beyond 100 yards? At those extended ranges you will need a very good rest and a very calm attitude to connect; at least I do.

pistlhntr

Thanks guys, that all makes sense.

However, I will also have a 357 LCR or sp101 2.5" very soon for CC, so getting a 357 sp101 4" might make sense. Anyone w/ experience hunting deer/hogs w/ 357 care to comment on sp101 4"? It has good adjustable sights.

Or, I could get a 5.5" RH 44Mag (stay in caliber, if I get 44Mag SRHH) BUT, is there really that much difference in carrying that, as opposed to 7.5" SRHH?
Maybe 1 gun works for both, as scope is easily removable w/ ruger rings.???
The sp101 4" would be alot lighter though, than a 5.5" RH 44Mag, right?

As for optics, I realize that I would not much use magnif. over 2X or 3X, but the bushnel elite costs same or less than many good 2X, and is barely any heavier/bulkier, as far as I have read. So any reason NOT to mount one?
Or am I better off going real light and small, and sticking to an Ultradot 30?

Now back to the BIG guns. Velocity is fine, but I am more interested in energy delivered to target/penetration and knockdown power. The 460 offers great flexibility, but what about the 480, which might have better knock down power, or the similar 475 Lnbrg? But really, do any of these offer MUCH more actual hunting performance that 454? Or even than 44Mag with the right ammo?
Especially considering I can get the SRHH 454/45 for under $600. Or is the 454/45 too similar to the 44Mag if I get that, that it is redundant?
I am pretty sure the 44Mag covers most of the bases, and seems like a reasonable place to start. Or am I reall better off w/ 454/45lc? I remain unconvinced that it offers real concrete advantages for actual hunting. And also unconvinced that going bigger than 454 is better. Advice/Experience?
Assuming I get the 44Mag, what would next gun for game deer sized and up be? Or should 44Mag be end of road?

TMD

If your comparing these two to the .460 their not even in the same league. In fact the .454 is more powerful then the two as well. I have a .460PC with the 10.5" barrel. My pet load is a 300gn XTP pushing 2100fps. That equates to about 2900lbs of energy at the muzzle. For comparisons sakes that the same muzzle energy as a 180gn bullet out of a .30-06 @ 2700 fps. Oh and the .460 has double the TaylorKO as the .30-06.

fungun

Seems the discussion is drifting from what is effective for hunting in North America to what is the better display of testosterone. Dead is dead, can't shoot something more dead. A 155mm howitzer won't make a deer more dead, but it sure would make the game a lot less usable. You'll be fine with a 44, the 454 gives more if you feel you need it.

nclarkin

+1

Tommi T

I think you are making too much of a problem out of this caliber selection thing.
get either a 44 mag or a 454 srh and then shoot it enough so you can evaluate its strengths and weaknesses for yourself. A 44 mag and a warm loaded 45 colt are pretty close to each other in performance. If you get the 454 you have a step up for later if you want or need it. In any case, don't buy a second gun until you have bought a reasonable reloading setup including a single stage press, a set of carbide dies, a powder scale, and a reloading manual (or three). Shoot 44 specials in the 44 (preferably something like 7.5 grains of unique and 240 grain cast bullets) for practice and then move up to mags. I like 20.0 grains of 2400 but there are other powders like h110 etc. Remember, all a handgun bullet does is punch a hole in the target. In an animal,it has to hit the central nervous system or create masive bleeding to kill an animal. For some interesting reading on bullet performance visit randywakeman.com and look under "big game hunting" . There are several articles by Dr. Martin Flakler (spelling?) who is a well known gunshot wound researcher. A bigger gun just makes a bigger hole, but its got to be in the right place. A little gun shot well is better than a big gun shot poorly. Best regards.

pistlhntr

Ok, this will hopefully be my last question on this thread:

Still torn as ever btwn 44Mag and 454/45lc: both used SRHH 7.5", both roughly same price.

I thought the 44sp ammo would be alot cheaper, but it turns out that 44sp ammo is about the same price as 45lc cowboy loads.

Yes, 44Mag is cheaper than 45lc +P, but I would definitely plan to re-load those.

So what is keeping me from the 44mag? Nothing really, EXCEPT:

The 454 seems to give me both the "starter hunting gun" (45) and the "next step gun" all for under $600.

But, if the 44mag is all I really need, even for moose and black bear, with the right ammo, then, the 44 makes the most sense.

Question: pushing the max of the 44mag loads (say 325 grns at 1300fps)
does that produce equally nasty recoil, as mid range 454 loads (like 350 grns at 1500 fps) or is the 454 still kicking back more?

fungun

Which is why I recommend the 454

Sal1950

The 44 mag is old news boring,

The 45LC is revolver history, being one of if not the first mass produced cartridges.
The 454 Casual is just way KOOL, with power and report second only to the S&W 460s or 500s.

I just don't see the agonized decision here.
I like my 44 Mag OM-SB, but it hasn't been to the range in I don't know how long. When I go out shooting and reach into the safe for a few guns the 44 just doesn't get the call any more. Poor ole SuperBlackhawk, now I'm starting to feel bad and may just have to get it out soon.
Sal

pistlhntr

True,
But my primary purpose w/ the gun is to hunt and put food on the table, not impress at the range. 2nd purpose is to save my ass if all hell brakes loose.

Either gun seems to meet my purposes, but as i am pretty new to handguns, and either would be a step up in recoil, I am concerned the 454 might prove daunting, and gather dust, but I guess, then I still can hunt deer, etc w/ 45lc hottish loads...

Hard 2 c a downside in either choice.
But still unconvinced 454 is clearly better than 44Mag, and is I do not find re-loading something I committ to, 44 will save $ in long run.

Am i undergunned w/ the 44Mag? that is kind of hard to believe, esp. when some say start w/ a 22, and work up, and that many w/ more exp. than I admit to not being able to handle even the 44Mag.