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Lipseys NMBH Bisley 454 Casull with large throats

This is a discussion on Lipseys NMBH Bisley 454 Casull with large throats within the Ruger Single Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; I bought it when they first came out in 2015 but never shot it until recently. Having trouble with accuracy and Hornady 240 gr and ...


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Old February 21st, 2017, 04:33 AM   #1
 
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Lipseys NMBH Bisley 454 Casull with large throats

I bought it when they first came out in 2015 but never shot it until recently.
Having trouble with accuracy and Hornady 240 gr and 300 gr XTP Mag handloads.
Shot it Mild to Hot using every powder I have from 296 , 2400 , 4227 , Universal , and groups are quite horrifying 4"-7" at 25yards.
After considerable frustration , I finally started looking to see what exactly is going on.
Gap is great at .004 , cylinder has no excessive play , range rod test by Gunsmith passes with flying colors , and the crown looks good.
The forcing cone cut looks even , but very shallow.
However the throats are a surprise as they appear to be about .454+ and are all uniform at that size.

Could this be why I'm getting more patterns than good groups ?

Ive shot .452 cast 240gr and 255gr with not much success and varying loads. It seems it will be 4-5" random patterns for 15-30 rounds , then suddenly tighten up for a cylinder full , then go back to random patterns again ?

Funny thing is it does this with cast AND Jacketed , and that has confused me. It doesn't seem to lead much at all with cast , but I have noticed there seems to be excessive copper fouling compared to my other two revolvers in large bore calibers.

I'm completely capable of shooting 1" groups at 25 yards , so have taken the ME out of the equation to a large degree on the accuracy issues.

At this point I'm not at all happy and very dissapointed.
I have a Taurus Raging Bull 44 mag that is amazingly accurate with lots of Mild or Hot loads , and a NMBH Bisley 45 Colt 5.5" that is quite capable with nearly anything I feed her out to 50 yards or so (after I opened the throats to .452 and reamed the forcing cone to 11*)

Can anyone advise me what to do ?
The oversize throats concern me , and I don't know if its contributing to my Random patterns or not ?


How do I shoot this when my throats are so oversize ?




Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; February 21st, 2017 at 04:47 AM.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 04:58 AM   #2
 
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You need to find some .454 or even .4535 cast bullets! I prefer 300gn in mine and I bet you see it tighten right up. All my wheel guns have the throats opened up by me to match the bores, then I cast and size to each gun. I can tell you that my accuracy with jackets is not that good in most of my tuned guns but with bullets cast to the gun I have NO leading and accuracy is nothing short of amazing. It will take a bit of work but if all else is good with the gun and you get the right cast bullets you'll be happy ! MY guess is with the looser throats your bullets are starting to tip before they hit the forcing cone causing them to hit the barrel out of alignment. Your gun came the way all of us casters would like them. We want a cylinder with throats .001 to .0015 larger then the barrel so the bullets do not get sized down before they get to the barrel. Or you can send it back and hope for .452 throats and shoot only jackets with good results?
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Old February 21st, 2017, 11:29 AM   #3
 
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you can also get a 458 bullet and a a sizer from corbin and downsize them to 455 I have done that.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 04:17 PM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 475linebaugh View Post
You need to find some .454 or even .4535 cast bullets! I prefer 300gn in mine and I bet you see it tighten right up. All my wheel guns have the throats opened up by me to match the bores, then I cast and size to each gun. I can tell you that my accuracy with jackets is not that good in most of my tuned guns but with bullets cast to the gun I have NO leading and accuracy is nothing short of amazing. It will take a bit of work but if all else is good with the gun and you get the right cast bullets you'll be happy ! MY guess is with the looser throats your bullets are starting to tip before they hit the forcing cone causing them to hit the barrel out of alignment. Your gun came the way all of us casters would like them. We want a cylinder with throats .001 to .0015 larger then the barrel so the bullets do not get sized down before they get to the barrel. Or you can send it back and hope for .452 throats and shoot only jackets with good results?
Did you also do the forcing cone to 11* ?
I hadn't really planned on shooting cast out of this one as I had intended to use 300gr Jacketed only.
I don't cast anymore at all because of Lead exposure for years that may or may not have caused some neuro issues.....wont risk it anymore so stuck with buying Cast from now on.
That kinda leaves me in a Ditch for acquiring Cast Boolits of .453 or larger ?
My 45 Colt Bisley NMBH has throats reamed to .4525 and shoots my locally available cast 255grainers just fine and also the 240 and 300 gr jacketed good too.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 04:19 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinters View Post
you can also get a 458 bullet and a a sizer from corbin and downsize them to 455 I have done that.
Could you elaborate on this at all ?
I do have lots of .358 sized 45-70 bullets and can also get some 300 grainers too !
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Old February 21st, 2017, 05:40 PM   #6
 
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you can get a swaging die from corbin or other companies and that will reduce the diameter of a bullet at the cost of a slight increase in length. You will need a larger single stage press and have it attached to a solid table. or base.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 03:19 PM   #7
 
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OK.....I just slugged all 5 of the cylinder throats carefully and cant believe what I'm seeing.

.4545
.4543
.4544
.4546
.4543

they are all within .0003 which is a Good Thing. But how in the Hell am I supposed to shoot any factory ammo ( Or work up a 300gr XTP load) when its all .452 diameter and my throats are all .454+ ?
Its no wonder I'm getting bad accuracy with all my favorite jacketed loads not to mention the probable velocity loss.

Now I'm at a loss as far as what to do ?

Slugged my barrel 5X carefully and it appears to be .4519 +/-

Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; February 22nd, 2017 at 03:22 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 03:26 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinters View Post
you can get a swaging die from corbin or other companies and that will reduce the diameter of a bullet at the cost of a slight increase in length. You will need a larger single stage press and have it attached to a solid table. or base.
Thanks , but NOPE ! That's not going to happen. I like a smaller Lee setup and have no need for anything larger.
I will play around with more loads , maybe ream the forcing cone , possibly try firelapping for a very slight restriction at the threads, return it to Ruger and squak like all get out....OR....Sell it !
Its either going to eventually shoot Good.....or its gone.

Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; February 22nd, 2017 at 06:16 PM.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 08:44 AM   #9
 
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Call Ruger customer service. They'll probably send you a return shipping label and replace the cylinder.

Dan
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