Thinking about getting a new model super convertible blackhawk in 357 mag so I can shoot 9mm cheaply at range. Have 44 mag and love it. The gun shop has a nmsb 44 mag in stainless for $400.00 and a new 357 convertible for $469.00. Just cannot make up my mind. Never shot a 357 before but I figure the recoil would be less than than the 44mag. 9mm ammo around here is plentiful and cheap about $10.00 a box. 44 mags even specials are around $26.00 to $32.00 a box.
Just bought a 1911 45 acp and fmj are $32.00 a box of 100. Enjoy that alot but I'm just a SA nut. Any advice would be appreciated.
Another advantage of the .357 is that you can shoot .38 Specials in the same cylinder. They are about the same price as 9 mm. around here and make great practice and plinking ammo. If you handload, you can roll your own in .44 Mag or .44 Special so the price differences between calibers might not be so great. I prefer the .357 because of the reduced recoil and noise.
.357 mag is right, the .38/357 are .357" and the 9mm is .355". When you buy a gun to shoot two calibers, something has to give.
If you want a .357, get one and shoot .38's out of it as they are amost as cheap and far more accurate.
Me, I would jump on the SBH in .44M, but you have one so a .357 is a good addition to you battery.
.357 mag is right, the .38/357 are .357" and the 9mm is .355". When you buy a gun to shoot two calibers, something has to give.
If you want a .357, get one and shoot .38's out of it as they are amost as cheap and far more accurate.
Me, I would jump on the SBH in .44M, but you have one so a .357 is a good addition to you battery.
The 357 doesn't offer the bigger bullets that I like, but is a great universal gun. It is a good self defense caliber, as well as a back up gun if stuck in the woods. But the 357's I've shot are not much quieter than the 44's, to me at least.
The above posts are correct. I just acquired a Blackhawk 357/9mm convertible that I have (and will only) shoot 38's out of. The 9mm performance is disappointing. I will stick to my Beretta 92FS for the 9mm stuff. I tried both Winchester and Remington 9mm and both shoot low, loose groups out of the Blackhawk. So it cost me an extra $50 bucks to get the 9mm cylinder - it was something I just had to try, but at least I have a nice shooting 38, which is all I really wanted anyway. For punching holes in paper 38's are way more fun then 357's.
I had a fantastic 357, smith and wesson highway patrolman. 6 ". and like a fool let it go in a trade. I now have a ruger blackhawk in 6". I dont let it sleep with 4 vaqueros in 44 mag, it might get fiesty and get hurt. I have not shot it, have not loaded for it yet. and just cannot get into little guns.
I have 6, counting the carbines, 44 mags. 6 grs of unique behind a 200 gr cast yap and kick like a 38. 21 grs 296 behind 318 gr cast are bruts not for 4 5/8 bbls. and carbines will let you know when you drop that hammer.
I never saw a 9mm that I would find needed.
I think the name you are looking for is "DINOSOUR".
I am a 44 man. Have been for longer than I want to remember. With that said I have had a few 357's in the past, and do have one BH convertible left that I do shoot with great accuracy in 9mm. But it is an older one that I think is tighter than spec, because, it is also the loudest cracking 357 I have ever shot!!! My lady loves it, so, she has it on her bed post for what goes bump in the night.
I don't believe one will kill less better than the other, except for large dangerous game, where the 44 can be specially loaded. All my life, I have heard and believed the 357 w/110 grn HP's was "THE MAN STOPPER"!!! My trail pard has a ranger friend , who's job it is to dispatch troublesome camp raiding bears, for which he uses a 357 exclusively,... so, the claim to being a man stopper kinda stands true to me.
Other than a better sectional density in the 357, and a much louder, sharper crack in report,... I think they both can get everyday jobs done that the normal man needs accomplished.
If you have .44s, then the only reason I see for a .357 is to have a carry weapon, and then not a SA. I would really like to have a dual-purpose .357, but since NJ does not allow carry anyway, I skipped it.
I load 200 grain lead at 1000 fps for light loads at 20 cents each, and 240 grain jacketed at 30 cents each.
Personally I would opt for the .44 but don't you'll go wrong in choosing either gun. I'd recommend looking into a reloading kit though, if you shoot a lot the investment pays itself off in a short time.
monkr,
I handload for .357, .44, .45 and more with my own home cast bullets made from scrap lead.
My ammo costs run $3-$4 per box of 50 rounds.
For the cost of a new gun you can get set up with some basic equipment that will last you a lifetime.
The many thousands of dollars that I have saved by handloading for the past 40 years has allowed me to buy several dozen nice guns.
When I want heavy loads or light loads, they are only a few minutes away.
I don't watch much TV so I have lots of time to cast and handload.
I have a couple of .357 NMBHs that I use for CAS. I sent one of them in for a 9mm cylinder. It is very accurate with my .357 loads and nearly as accurate with CCI Blazer 9mm. I was very pleasantly surprised.
Comparing a 180grs load in 357 with a 240grs load in 44, each loaded to the max with LilGun according to the hodgdon loading data for the Nosler Partition, you end up with quite substantial energy of 808flbs for the 357 and 1334flbs for the 44. The sectional density of the 357 is about 14% over that of the 44. The 44 travels with about 100fps more than the 357.
Given the energy neither of the loads will get an hog (I am lacking the experience with a bear, but it should not be any better) full of adrenalin from its feet when you hit it in the heart. The attacking animal will have the eternity of "the dead mans 4 seconds" to get you.
You have to hit the central nervous system, preferable the brain. There it doesn't matter wether you have the 808flbs or 1334flbs of energy.
And then the 357 has some advantages. With the higher sectional density and traveling about 100fps slower, it will penetrate better, especially through the skull. And it is much more controllable, which augments the probability to hit the target on repeated shots.
Given this and the fact, that a GP160 is much better to carry then any gun in 44, I would opt for the 357. And indeed did.
Comparing a 180grs load in 357 with a 240grs load in 44, each loaded to the max with LilGun according to the hodgdon loading data for the Nosler Partition, you end up with quite substantial energy of 808flbs for the 357 and 1334flbs for the 44. The sectional density of the 357 is about 14% over that of the 44. The 44 travels with about 100fps more than the 357.You have to hit the central nervous system, preferable the brain. There it doesn't matter wether you have the 808flbs or 1334flbs of energy.
While I agree with most of what you have said here, Fritz, my calculations show that to get that ME with a 240 grain bullet, it needs to be approaching 1600 fps. (!) I don't use LilGun, nor do I know what a 'max load' of that stuff will do, but I find it hard to believe that it will outperform H-110 that clearly and stay within SAAMI pressure specs. Not trying to be argumentative, but I'd like to know a bit more about that load. I.e., how much do you use, and what barrel length are you shooting it in. (I am assuming that you are talking about HANDGUNS here, as that is the subject at hand.) In my Marlin 1894, I can get that much MV, but not from my 7.5" barrelled SBH Hunter, I think. I note that much of the data provided by Hodgdon is taken with rather longer barrels, and even with 'pressure barrels', which lack the cylinder-to-barrel gap, too.
??
Hmmmmm,... 357 for penetrating bear skulls,... just makes an uneasy feeling come over me. I pack in "bear country". I have for many decades. And, I have yet to hear or read any recommendations of anything less that a specialty load in 44mag. And I really mean a "SPECIALTY LOAD"!
Even 44mag Run of the mill loadings don't seem to be suggested. Heavy, hard cast lead that don't break up is usually what I have had suggested to me, and what I carried as a bear primary until I started up with the Marlin 444. And never a suggestion in 44mag of anything much less than 44mag max loadings.
My biz/trail pard has a good friend who is a forest Ranger. His job is killing bears that have become return offenders. He uses a 357 exclusively.
BUT,... he does it in a manner that I have not the nerve to do. He waits until the bear charges and stops to stand and present himself as being bigger than the man not retreating. And when the bear does this,.... he puts a 357/110 grn slug in its throat, cutting the spinal column, and the bear goes down.
But never, in all the dozens of bears he has dispatched, did he ever claim to bust one in its skull.
Bear skulls are notorious for deflecting poorly chosen caliber/projectiles. Which is why I have gone from 44mag to 444. I still carry a 44mag sidearm. And I am now going back to a Ruger SA for heavier bear loadings in a sidearm. But, my lever 444 is what I feel most confident when packing the mountain range I do, that has reported an average of more than 50 bear a year taken in the past decade of seasonal hunting.
I have shot dangerous animals. I have seen their will to continue charging, to get me. I would be very cautious to recommend a 357 to anyone ( I like ), for dangerous game.
just one man's opinion.
p.s.
I now carry a S&W 329PD,... which is far better (for me) to carry than any other 44mag, or, 357.
My biz/trail pard has a good friend who is a forest Ranger. His job is killing bears that have become return offenders. He uses a 357 exclusively.
BUT,... he does it in a manner that I have not the nerve to do. He waits until the bear charges and stops to stand and present himself as being bigger than the man not retreating. And when the bear does this,.... he puts a 357/110 grn slug in its throat, cutting the spinal column, and the bear goes down.
I'm agreed with some of the above.
The 9mm cylinder is not the best value in a multi-cal weapon because of middling accuracy.
You're better off saving money and getting just the straight .357 for use with .38spl as well OR get the .45 convertible so you can shoot both Colt and ACP. At least you're not likely to give up accuracy with the .45 convertible since the bullet diameters are a better match (but yes, .45 is more spendy than 9mm).
Lil'Gun works with a looooong, but low pressure curve, unlike H110 which has a higher, shorter peak.
In my recent experience, a 158gr .357 with a *starting load* of Lil'Gun produces about 1250fps (chrony'd) from the muzzle of my 4-5/8" Blackhawk. This gun has a generous B/C gap, IMO. I don't have the hardware to test it, but I think Lil'Gun gets more benefit from a long barrel than H110 does. I have no way of testing peak operating pressures myself.
A comparison between H110 and Lil'Gun loads in both .357 and .44 in 4-5/8" and 6-1/2" barrel lengths (in each caliber) in the same 4 guns would be really interesting.
Yeah, ok. H-110 is #49 and Lil Gun is #58 on the burn rate chart, so the latter is somewhat slower.
Since posting my comment, I did a bit of research. I have to stand corrected on the DATA published by Hodgdon. They do, in fact, claim nearly 1600 fps for a big load of Lil Gun under a 240 grain slug.
However. . . . in my experience, ALL of the Hodgdon data are VERY optimistic compared to real world measurements. For example, they claim around 1800 fps from a full load of H-110 under a 200 grain 44 mag bullet. My SBH Hunter gives just a bit over 1500 fps for that load. Measured many times; it's very close to my hunting load. That's about THREE HUNDRED fps less than their data!
They state that they are using an 8.2" barrel, but do not mention if it is a 'pressure barrel' or not. From my measurements, I would have to assume that it is. Either that or a single shot pistol such as a Contender. As you state, the slower burn stuff will be enhanced by the longer barrel, to be sure.
As another comparison, my Speer manual, which has proven to be pretty close to my own measurements regarding MV, gives the highest MV for a 240 grain bullet from a 44 Mag as around 1450 fps. This is not for Lil Gun, but for H-110. Since it gives over 1680 for the 200 grainer, it is clearly still a bit optimistic. This is for a 7.5" RH.
The direct comparison you suggest would indeed be an interesting thing to do!
Got here too late. NM Blackhawk with convert cyclinder is a great piece for range fun.
I have one and shot all tree calibers. And I have to say so far I have found NO DIFFERENCE in accuracy. Maybe the bullets are in fact different size (.357 vs .355), but I haven't yet find that to matter to my shooting.
Here is my target when my Blackhawk load with 38.
And this one is from 9mm convertible cylinder.
Both are from free stands two hands hold and targets were about 15 yards away. I'm not a great revolver shooter, I mostly shoot semi auto.
I have had .30 carbine, .357/9mm, 45acp/.45lc, .41 mag and .44 mag blackhawks as well as .22/.22mag. I like them all, specially the three screw. For just plain shooting, I'll reach for the .44 everytime. Cost more to shoot than some, but hey, the otthers dont satisfy like the big bore.
A gun that fires three kinds of ammo in a day that we have seen supply problems from a pandemic and from good, old fashioned incompetence whispers "I'm the one, buy me."
One of these days, if it hasn't already happened, we are going to have new posts telling someone the advantages/disadvantages of buying a gun that is no longer available. Or answering a question about a law that no longer exists.
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