Ruger shooting loose

ducktail · 12-11-2009, 05:43 PM

I am wondering if this is a Chevy vs Ford thing, but at the skeet club, all the fellas who really shoot say that a Ruger will wear loose. I have 4 Ruger O/U's. 3 are old blued 20's with fixed chokes. The 4th is a 12 ga with screw in chokes. None of these guns appear to be getting loose. What are these guys talking about? Does a Ruger become loose?

DCunniff · 12-13-2009, 02:48 PM

What are they comparing to?

Rugers open easy, as should good guns. Less expensive ones open hard.

Some wear can cause side movement and twist.

I shoot trap, very limited 5 stand, haven't done skeet yet. I like my Ruger. It is not my primary clay gun as it is a 26" barrel and we have real trap guns. I rarely see Rugers, and I look for them. Most people buy cheaper or more expensive.

The way they are designed I would guess they are wrong. My most shot guns are trap Brownings and Berettas for my wife and I. They are not getting "loose".

As I shoot more 5 stand and get into skeet we are using my Ruger and a low cost Stoeger in shorter barrels.

The day I buy a sporting clays length I hope to buy a Ruger.

Dana

ducktail · 12-14-2009, 09:53 AM

Most of the guns, the great majority, are Citories. The guys who really shoot have Berettas. There are othe ones out there but I think they are mostly for show.

DCunniff · 12-14-2009, 01:28 PM

OK, I thought maybe they were more expensive ones they were talking about.

I have a Citori trap gun from mid 80's, a lower cost Beretta 628 Gold trap gun from mid 90's I recall that we shoot a lot more with in trap as mentioned. I see guys with up to $20,000 trap guns.

I can't comment further at the moment on whether your gun will not take a lot of shooting though I think it is a stretch. I may look for some information when I have some time.

Dana

BoBDoG2o02 · 12-14-2009, 01:36 PM

Theres no reason for the Ruger to Wear any differently than the high dollar guns. Keep it clean and well maintained and it should shoot just fine.

ducktail · 12-14-2009, 04:30 PM

I didn't include enough info. The Citoris are just that. Regular Citoris. And some "regular" Berettas. The fellas I hear this from are shooting the likes of Beretta DT10's. A step or so above the Rugers and Citoris.

Have y'all heard of Rugers shooting loose? I have never seen it. I have just heard it from some guys at the range. And then from another fella who has rether extensive firearm knowledge. I have not seen it myself.

ducktail · 12-14-2009, 04:34 PM

If I think about it, if there was a problem with them shooting loose, they would have fixed it. How often have the other makers come out with newer models which are different guns. Other than for the "sales" factor, they must be coming out with an improved gun.

If Ruger had a problem, they would have surely come out with a newer model with improvements. And how long has the Red Label been under production.

jtf650 · 12-15-2009, 06:23 AM

A Red Label will basically fall open, even when brand new, but it is that way by design, not due to wear. I had one brand new, and my first reaction was that there was something wrong with the gun, so it's easy to see why somebody might think a Red Label had been shot out, but it's not so. The guys with the DT10s may not know as much as they think they do. Here's what Jeff Quinn at Gunblast.com had to say in a couple of different Red Label reviews:

" Another feature of the Ruger that I really like the self-opening design. Pushing the top lever to the right releases the action to fall open on its own. Some less-knowledgeable shooters think that this means that the gun is worn out. That just ain’t so. They are accustomed to most new double guns taking the use of both hands and one leg to open the action. The Ruger drops open smoothly with the push of the lever."

"It also opens easily. I like that feature on the Ruger. Shooters who do not understand the design think that it is built too loosely. That just ain’t so. They are accustomed to buying a new Italian or Japanese gun and having to open it using both hands and one knee. The design of the Red Label locks it up as tightly as any double made, but upon opening, the mono block is eased forward ever so slightly, allowing the gun to almost fall open. It is an ingenious and elegant design, and in my opinion, the best on the market in that regard."

claybird · 12-23-2009, 05:51 PM

I tried my Red Label 30 in. SC's model for trap and it shoots too flat. I have to blank out
the target . An adjustable stock would take care of that.
My 20ga. 26 inch ,I have used for skeet for 11 years and it does NOT fall open I have
to use some effort to get it open far enough for the bottem barrel to eject. I find that most Ruger bashers have never owned or shot a Red Label.
They will be the last guns that I ever get rid of.

DanAKAL · 12-31-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claybird

I find that most Ruger bashers have never owned or shot a Red Label.

I expect this is closer to the reason you got the comment about you Ruger shooting loose. A Red Label will wear or get loose no more than any other gun. Even the high dollar Perrazi's and Kriehgof's of the world. Perhaps due to the design of the Ruger it may very well out last others. One other thing is when the Red Label is open the hinge will wag side to side a little. With other shotguns that have a long thick pivot pin the barrel hinges on this represents a worn pin. Not so with the Ruger. The easy open and wag lead people who are unfamiliar with Red Labels to believe the hinge is loose or worn out. The true test for a Red Label is when you close it. If it locks up tight and has no free movement there is nothing to be concerned about.

There are also the Ruger bashers out there that believe it to be an inferior shotgun. For them, I wait until shootoff time and proudly step in the box with my American made working mans gun and proceed to smash clay targets.

Dan

BoBDoG2o02 · 12-31-2009, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAKAL

There are also the Ruger bashers out there that believe it to be an inferior shotgun. For them, I wait until shootoff time and proudly step in the box with my American made working mans gun and proceed to smash clay targets.

Dan

Couldnt have said it better myself. Working man's gun.

ducktail · 01-06-2010, 06:09 PM

For what it is worth, this past weekend we, a few guys, took our kids to the skeet range. One of the boys had shot before more than the others. My 12 year old was more than adequate and can outshoot some adults. My nephew who knows it all may have received his humility lesson. While there, one of the dad's who had grown up with guns asked to shoot my O/U's to try them out. He started with a single shot as a boy and went to a pump & auto. Never a double barrel. He tried my one of my Red Labels and my SKB 505. Both 20's. He really liked the RL and they way it dropped open and ejected the shells. This was a 28"er with skeet & skeet chokes. He could not hit the clays since he kept trying to pump the action, but he did like the RL. The SKB was still tight and it has seen its' share of clays being popped.

Durangogun · 02-17-2010, 03:42 PM

My two cents . . . (just looked at this post and maybe it's more like two bits!)

I've heard the same thing--that you have to buy a Perazzi or a Krieghoff or some other gun you'd need a mortgage to pay for if you're going to shoot trap or skeet regularly and not have the gun shoot loose prematurely.

First, let's make sure we're all talking about the same thing. "Shooting loose" doesn't usually refer to how hard or easy it is to open and close the gun. It refers to a double gun that has become loose, or "off the face." The fit of the barrels to the action has worn or become damaged (usually the main wear is on the hinge pin and the lug that rides it, but the lockup wears, other parts that constitute a tight fit also wear--and there are a lot of different designs so different parts on different guns).

If a gun is "off the face", or loose, when you remove the forestock you can wiggle the barrels.

I believe any gun will eventually shoot loose--the question is how long will it take.

I managed to shoot a 25 or so years-old 20 ga. Citori skeet model quite loose. Tried to figure out how many round I'd fired through it and guessed it at somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000. It took me a while to shoot that many rounds, but a serious trap or skeet competitor could easily do that in a few years.

After a few 100,000 miles on a gasoline engine you're probably going to need a valve or ring job. Why is it we all understand this with an engine, but many of us expect our guns to last forever without ever needing work?

After many tens of thousands of rounds, you can always have a shotgun rebuilt--especially if you like the gun.

I had my Browning rebuilt in Missouri a couple of years ago, and it's good as new. I hope I get to shoot it enough to need another rebuild down the line.

I see no reason why a shotgun as well made as a Ruger Red Label shouldn't wear as well as other good guns, and if you take care of it and get 50,000 or 60,000 rounds through it and it shoots loose, I'd say consider how much fun it gave you, rebuild it and start working on wearing it out again!

Will a Ruger or Browning wear out sooner than a Perazzi or a Krieghoff? I'm told they will. I have no personal experience of that. I know that a good $1,500-$2,000 shotgun will last a very long time, and cost only a few hundred to rebuild.

Can I afford a Perazzi or a Krieghoff--or any of a dozen or more other lovely $5,000-$10,000 or even far more expensive guns? No.
Do they have better triggers, more beautiful wood, and some other very nice qualities my Browning doesn't? Yes.
Would I buy one if I had the money? Maybe. Maybe not.

But I'm not worrying about my Browning wearing out before its time, and I wouldn't worry about your Ruger, either. The Red Label is a great gun. If they fit me, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

12-11-2009, 05:43 PM	#1
ducktail Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 11	Ruger shooting loose I am wondering if this is a Chevy vs Ford thing, but at the skeet club, all the fellas who really shoot say that a Ruger will wear loose. I have 4 Ruger O/U's. 3 are old blued 20's with fixed chokes. The 4th is a 12 ga with screw in chokes. None of these guns appear to be getting loose. What are these guys talking about? Does a Ruger become loose?

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12-13-2009, 02:48 PM	#2
DCunniff Joined: May 2008 From: Mansfield, MA Posts: 198	What are they comparing to? Rugers open easy, as should good guns. Less expensive ones open hard. Some wear can cause side movement and twist. I shoot trap, very limited 5 stand, haven't done skeet yet. I like my Ruger. It is not my primary clay gun as it is a 26" barrel and we have real trap guns. I rarely see Rugers, and I look for them. Most people buy cheaper or more expensive. The way they are designed I would guess they are wrong. My most shot guns are trap Brownings and Berettas for my wife and I. They are not getting "loose". As I shoot more 5 stand and get into skeet we are using my Ruger and a low cost Stoeger in shorter barrels. The day I buy a sporting clays length I hope to buy a Ruger. Dana

12-14-2009, 09:53 AM	#3
ducktail Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 11	Most of the guns, the great majority, are Citories. The guys who really shoot have Berettas. There are othe ones out there but I think they are mostly for show.

12-14-2009, 01:28 PM	#4
DCunniff Joined: May 2008 From: Mansfield, MA Posts: 198	OK, I thought maybe they were more expensive ones they were talking about. I have a Citori trap gun from mid 80's, a lower cost Beretta 628 Gold trap gun from mid 90's I recall that we shoot a lot more with in trap as mentioned. I see guys with up to $20,000 trap guns. I can't comment further at the moment on whether your gun will not take a lot of shooting though I think it is a stretch. I may look for some information when I have some time. Dana

12-14-2009, 01:36 PM	#5
BoBDoG2o02 Joined: Dec 2009 From: Oxford, PA Posts: 278	Theres no reason for the Ruger to Wear any differently than the high dollar guns. Keep it clean and well maintained and it should shoot just fine.

12-14-2009, 04:30 PM	#6
ducktail Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 11	I didn't include enough info. The Citoris are just that. Regular Citoris. And some "regular" Berettas. The fellas I hear this from are shooting the likes of Beretta DT10's. A step or so above the Rugers and Citoris. Have y'all heard of Rugers shooting loose? I have never seen it. I have just heard it from some guys at the range. And then from another fella who has rether extensive firearm knowledge. I have not seen it myself.

12-14-2009, 04:34 PM	#7
ducktail Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 11	If I think about it, if there was a problem with them shooting loose, they would have fixed it. How often have the other makers come out with newer models which are different guns. Other than for the "sales" factor, they must be coming out with an improved gun. If Ruger had a problem, they would have surely come out with a newer model with improvements. And how long has the Red Label been under production.

12-15-2009, 06:23 AM	#8
jtf650 Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 30	A Red Label will basically fall open, even when brand new, but it is that way by design, not due to wear. I had one brand new, and my first reaction was that there was something wrong with the gun, so it's easy to see why somebody might think a Red Label had been shot out, but it's not so. The guys with the DT10s may not know as much as they think they do. Here's what Jeff Quinn at Gunblast.com had to say in a couple of different Red Label reviews: " Another feature of the Ruger that I really like the self-opening design. Pushing the top lever to the right releases the action to fall open on its own. Some less-knowledgeable shooters think that this means that the gun is worn out. That just ain’t so. They are accustomed to most new double guns taking the use of both hands and one leg to open the action. The Ruger drops open smoothly with the push of the lever." "It also opens easily. I like that feature on the Ruger. Shooters who do not understand the design think that it is built too loosely. That just ain’t so. They are accustomed to buying a new Italian or Japanese gun and having to open it using both hands and one knee. The design of the Red Label locks it up as tightly as any double made, but upon opening, the mono block is eased forward ever so slightly, allowing the gun to almost fall open. It is an ingenious and elegant design, and in my opinion, the best on the market in that regard."

12-23-2009, 05:51 PM	#9
claybird Joined: May 2009 From: NE In. Posts: 118	I tried my Red Label 30 in. SC's model for trap and it shoots too flat. I have to blank out the target . An adjustable stock would take care of that. My 20ga. 26 inch ,I have used for skeet for 11 years and it does NOT fall open I have to use some effort to get it open far enough for the bottem barrel to eject. I find that most Ruger bashers have never owned or shot a Red Label. They will be the last guns that I ever get rid of.

01-06-2010, 06:09 PM	#12
ducktail Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 11	For what it is worth, this past weekend we, a few guys, took our kids to the skeet range. One of the boys had shot before more than the others. My 12 year old was more than adequate and can outshoot some adults. My nephew who knows it all may have received his humility lesson. While there, one of the dad's who had grown up with guns asked to shoot my O/U's to try them out. He started with a single shot as a boy and went to a pump & auto. Never a double barrel. He tried my one of my Red Labels and my SKB 505. Both 20's. He really liked the RL and they way it dropped open and ejected the shells. This was a 28"er with skeet & skeet chokes. He could not hit the clays since he kept trying to pump the action, but he did like the RL. The SKB was still tight and it has seen its' share of clays being popped.

02-17-2010, 03:42 PM	#13
Durangogun Joined: Jan 2010 From: southwest Colorado Posts: 63	My two cents . . . (just looked at this post and maybe it's more like two bits!) I've heard the same thing--that you have to buy a Perazzi or a Krieghoff or some other gun you'd need a mortgage to pay for if you're going to shoot trap or skeet regularly and not have the gun shoot loose prematurely. First, let's make sure we're all talking about the same thing. "Shooting loose" doesn't usually refer to how hard or easy it is to open and close the gun. It refers to a double gun that has become loose, or "off the face." The fit of the barrels to the action has worn or become damaged (usually the main wear is on the hinge pin and the lug that rides it, but the lockup wears, other parts that constitute a tight fit also wear--and there are a lot of different designs so different parts on different guns). If a gun is "off the face", or loose, when you remove the forestock you can wiggle the barrels. I believe any gun will eventually shoot loose--the question is how long will it take. I managed to shoot a 25 or so years-old 20 ga. Citori skeet model quite loose. Tried to figure out how many round I'd fired through it and guessed it at somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000. It took me a while to shoot that many rounds, but a serious trap or skeet competitor could easily do that in a few years. After a few 100,000 miles on a gasoline engine you're probably going to need a valve or ring job. Why is it we all understand this with an engine, but many of us expect our guns to last forever without ever needing work? After many tens of thousands of rounds, you can always have a shotgun rebuilt--especially if you like the gun. I had my Browning rebuilt in Missouri a couple of years ago, and it's good as new. I hope I get to shoot it enough to need another rebuild down the line. I see no reason why a shotgun as well made as a Ruger Red Label shouldn't wear as well as other good guns, and if you take care of it and get 50,000 or 60,000 rounds through it and it shoots loose, I'd say consider how much fun it gave you, rebuild it and start working on wearing it out again! Will a Ruger or Browning wear out sooner than a Perazzi or a Krieghoff? I'm told they will. I have no personal experience of that. I know that a good $1,500-$2,000 shotgun will last a very long time, and cost only a few hundred to rebuild. Can I afford a Perazzi or a Krieghoff--or any of a dozen or more other lovely $5,000-$10,000 or even far more expensive guns? No. Do they have better triggers, more beautiful wood, and some other very nice qualities my Browning doesn't? Yes. Would I buy one if I had the money? Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm not worrying about my Browning wearing out before its time, and I wouldn't worry about your Ruger, either. The Red Label is a great gun. If they fit me, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.