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mark 4 disassembly

This is a discussion on mark 4 disassembly within the Ruger Rimfires forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; The cross pin that holds the bolt stop pin & mainspring housing in my Mark4 keeps working it's way out every 100 rounds or so. ...


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Old April 17th, 2017, 03:14 PM   #1
 
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mark 4 disassembly

The cross pin that holds the bolt stop pin & mainspring housing in my Mark4 keeps working it's way out every 100 rounds or so. (it's the rear cross pin with 2 grooves in it)

I can feel a little resistance to pushing the pin in so there is some retaining spring tension on the cross pin grooves but it doesn't feel like enough.

I want to take that cross pin, bolt stop pin, & takedown button out to see if I can add a bit more tension to the pin retaining spring but don't want to end up with major reassembly problems.

Has anyone had the rear part of the Mark4 apart yet? If so will I have any reassembly issues.

Any info on that pin continually coming out would also be appreciated.



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Old April 17th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #2
 
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Your retaining spring should have plenty of tension already.

I suspect the pin has been installed incorrectly. The arms of the spring should be under the pin, pushing up against it. If they are over the pin, the tension will be just as you describe and the pin will walk out during use.

I would slowly push the pin with a small punch until I could see how the first spring arm is positioned. If it's wrong, I would continue pushing just until the second arm is free (leaving the pin in the frame). Then use the punch to push the second arm down and slide the pin in over it. Continue pushing the pin until it is at the first arm. Then push the first arm down with the punch and finish inserting the pin until it's flush with the frame. You should feel both arms snap into the pin grooves.

I hope this helps.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 10:35 AM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngineer View Post
Your retaining spring should have plenty of tension already.

I suspect the pin has been installed incorrectly. The arms of the spring should be under the pin, pushing up against it. If they are over the pin, the tension will be just as you describe and the pin will walk out during use.

I would slowly push the pin with a small punch until I could see how the first spring arm is positioned. If it's wrong, I would continue pushing just until the second arm is free (leaving the pin in the frame). Then use the punch to push the second arm down and slide the pin in over it. Continue pushing the pin until it is at the first arm. Then push the first arm down with the punch and finish inserting the pin until it's flush with the frame. You should feel both arms snap into the pin grooves.


Afternoon TestEngineer

I did check the spring position yesterday by sliding the pin partially out each side. I found it where it is supposed to be (under the pin)

But I didn't see a lot of spring protrusion into the pin hole so it looked to me like it just doesn't have enough upward tension.

I was kind of hoping that someone has had that rear takedown button & slide stop pin apart as I want to remove the spring & bend/retention it.

In any case, lacking any information on taking the rear apart (actually putting it back together as I'm sure that I can get it apart OK) today I slid the pin partially out again then used a very small eye glasses screwdriver to pry the spring legs up reaching in through the pin holes.

I'm not sure how much if any actual spring tension I added but it is a starting point. If the pin now stays put I guess I managed to add tension to spring's pin retaining legs. (it's a work in progress now)
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Old April 18th, 2017, 11:11 AM   #4
 
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The pin holds the mainspring housing, takedown latch, and boltstop pin together, AND holds them inside the frame on top of that spring.

I would suggest you invest in making a slave pin the same diameter as the main pin, but shorter by 2 frame thicknesses. By driving the slave pin in to replace the main pin, you should be able to lift all the parts out as a single assembly. This would give you access to the spring you are interested in stretching, and make reassembly a snap.

Good Luck.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngineer View Post
The pin holds the mainspring housing, takedown latch, and boltstop pin together, AND holds them inside the frame on top of that spring.

I would suggest you invest in making a slave pin the same diameter as the main pin, but shorter by 2 frame thicknesses. By driving the slave pin in to replace the main pin, you should be able to lift all the parts out as a single assembly. This would give you access to the spring you are interested in stretching, and make reassembly a snap.

Good Luck.
Afternoon TestEngineer

So basically I can take it apart piece by piece then reassemble on my bench using a short slave pin, then slide the whole enchilada back in place on top of the spring, then use the factory cross pin to push the slave pin through?

What about the takedown button?

It looks like the takedown button will have to go in as a separate operation as it kind of keys into the frame so won't the slave pin in place prevent removal & re-assembly of the takedown button?

I need to understand this better before removing parts & pieces.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 06:23 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner Bill View Post
Afternoon TestEngineer

So basically I can take it apart piece by piece then reassemble on my bench using a short slave pin, then slide the whole enchilada back in place on top of the spring, then use the factory cross pin to push the slave pin through?

What about the takedown button?

It looks like the takedown button will have to go in as a separate operation as it kind of keys into the frame so won't the slave pin in place prevent removal & re-assembly of the takedown button?

I need to understand this better before removing parts & pieces.
So, look at the "exploded" diagram in your manual. The "button"
(#28) is held onto the MSH (#24) by the main pin (#29). If you disassemble without a slave pin, the dual button springs (#27) will tend to launch all the parts in different directions as soon as your punch is pulled clear of the notch the bolt stop pin sits in.

If you want to disassemble without a slave pin, then I suggest you disassemble with the frame wrapped in a towel to catch the flying parts. No flying parts with the slave pin installed before hand.

If you have all the parts, then yes, you can reassemble on your bench with the slave pin and install the whole enchilada as a single unit. The takedown button will be part of this single unit. It is keyed to the MSH - not to the frame.
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Old May 9th, 2017, 07:08 PM   #7
 
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I too have a disassembly button pin that keeps working its way out (about 30 rounds is all it will take to start it moving out). Just had mine apart and the retaining springs seem to be under the pin but not nearly putting enough tension to retain the pin. Did you figure any solution with yours?
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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:45 AM   #8
 
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My Mark IV Competition has the same problem. Works itself out of the left side frame after shooting. First noticed it after about 350 rounds. Put the pin back in and last time out shot 100 rounds and it was out but didn't monitor it closely to see how many rounds it took. Called Ruger and at their advice will send it in for repair today.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 04:08 AM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjmart View Post
I too have a disassembly button pin that keeps working its way out (about 30 rounds is all it will take to start it moving out). Just had mine apart and the retaining springs seem to be under the pin but not nearly putting enough tension to retain the pin. Did you figure any solution with yours?
Morning chrisjmart

I'm not sure yet, I have definitely slowed the pin from coming out frequently.

I slid the pin partially out one way then used a small screwdriver to reach in & pry the spring up about as far as I felt comfortable doing. Then slid the pin out the other way & did the same thing. (that seemed to help but the pin still came out a short ways (not all the way out though)-- I t-h-i-n-k the prying on the spring got at least one side to hold good but the other side still slipped out of the pin groove.


Next thing I did was to just completely remove the pin (that allows the bolt stop pin to freely come out & allows the takedown button to freely come out & allows the main spring housing to be lifted slightly) -- Unfortunately the main spring housing can't be lifted or moved far enough to easily get the pin retaining spring out.

It will take removing the hammer & probably removing the sear to get the main spring housing to move far enough to easily get to the pin retaining spring.

I think I can maybe get the pin retaining spring out from under the main spring housing by using a small screwdriver to pry the spring front legs out of the main spring housing retaining holes on each side but getting them back in might be a problem.

So while I had the bolt stop pin & take down button out, & had main spring housing loose, I pried up on those spring legs again in the pin slot area.

Then put it all back together (by pushing on the pin it seems to be more secure but only many shots will prove or disprove if it helped) -- I have been doing a trigger job on my Sig 320 so the Mark 4 has been put on the back burner for a while.

Bottom line-- I have definitely helped the problem but can't say for sure if I have totally eliminated the problem at this time.

Ruger doesn't seem to want to send me the repair parts & say I need to send the gun to them for repair (apparently they have a big problem with those pins working out).

Unfortunately I have removed the mag safety parts, shimmed the hammer & trigger, done a trigger job so those parts would have to be removed /reinstalled before I can send the gun back to them (that is as much work as me just installing the new updated parts myself)

I'm not sure what I am going to do next-- If I can get Ruger to send me the parts, or even buy them I will repair it myself. (easier than putting the gun back to stock)-- Or maybe it is now fixed as the pin did stay in place for a couple of hundred shots)

Of just remove the pin, then totally degrease the pin & holes then use blue lock-tite on the pin to frame holes (only at outboard ends)-- I'm sure that this will stop the pin from migrating out but will make future disassembly more difficult.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 04:30 AM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner Bill View Post
Morning chrisjmart


Unfortunately I have removed the mag safety parts, shimmed the hammer & trigger, done a trigger job so those parts would have to be removed /reinstalled before I can send the gun back to them (that is as much work as me just installing the new updated parts myself)
Just FYI to others, on the form I had to fill out to send mine in for repair there are two statements you have to agree to and initial:

Any aftermarket or altered Ruger part(s) found to inhibit the function or safety of the firearm will be changed out. Any altered Ruger part(s) will not be returned. You have my permission.

If the trigger pull of my firearm is below factory minimum, it will be brought back to factory standards. You have my permission.

I have the VQ Accurizing kit but luckily have not yet installed yet as I would have had to reinstall the original parts.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 07:48 PM   #11
 
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A few weeks ago I added a drop of blue loctite to each side of the pin (after the pin was in place). This did almost nothing as it started its way out after about 60 rounds. Tonight I pushed the pin to one side and added a drop of red loctite, then pushed the pin the other way and added a drop to the opposite side. We'll see tomorrow if it holds for longer than 30 rounds. I'm wishing I would have degreased with alcohol to make sure it held better first. I'll find out tomorrow. Hopefully I won't end up with the spring arms glued down and the pin still coming out.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 09:07 PM   #12
 
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Unfortunately, Loctite won't harden in the presence of air. I've tried it on a couple of things where air should be minimal, and it was still liquid 3 days later. I've gone to 2 part epoxy for things other than threads. Also not perfect, but better than super glue and other bonders I've tried.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 03:56 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by chrisjmart View Post
A few weeks ago I added a drop of blue loctite to each side of the pin (after the pin was in place). This did almost nothing as it started its way out after about 60 rounds. Tonight I pushed the pin to one side and added a drop of red loctite, then pushed the pin the other way and added a drop to the opposite side. We'll see tomorrow if it holds for longer than 30 rounds. I'm wishing I would have degreased with alcohol to make sure it held better first. I'll find out tomorrow. Hopefully I won't end up with the spring arms glued down and the pin still coming out.
Morning chrisjmart

Loc-Tite (either red 262 or blue 242) doesn't do well with oil or grease in the joint.

Both the standard Red or Blue are somewhat dependent on seeing lack of oxygen to cure but that isn't a problem in most pin to hole joints as the somewhat tight fit of the pin to the surrounding hole precludes oxygen in the joint if the Loc-Tite is spread evenly & fills most of the gap.

Loc-Tite also doesn't cure fast when used on stainless steel, aluminum, or coated parts (you are putting a coated pin in a stainless hole)

Cold parts slow the curing time with the opposite being a little heat shortening the curing time.

On problematic joints like stainless steel or coated (personally) I usually use the Loc-Tite 7649 Primer N as that is required for a reasonable cure time on non ferrous part fitment.

Properly used & properly primed the Red (262) Loc-Tite will positively keep that pin from migrating out but the joint must be clean of all oil & grease, the Loc-tite must be spread evenly throughout the joint, & unless primed with primer N the cure time is much longer than overnight unless the parts are warmed during the curing period.

The downside on using the Red (262) Loc-tite is removal of the parts at a later time as it takes at least 250f & in some cases more like 300f to get the Loc-Tite to release it's hold & that is difficult to do on some joints without overheating the surrounding areas & hurting springs or discoloring surfaces.

Last edited by Gunner Bill; May 12th, 2017 at 03:58 AM.
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Old May 14th, 2017, 04:22 PM   #14
 
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Why not try to expand the ends of the pin on both ends by striking it on the end with a prick punch, by "fattening up" both ends of the pin, neither end can move into its' hole to move out of the frame. It would be better that staking the pin ends.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 03:50 AM   #15
 
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Why not try to expand the ends of the pin on both ends by striking it on the end with a prick punch, by "fattening up" both ends of the pin, neither end can move into its' hole to move out of the frame. It would be better that staking the pin ends.
Morning valvestem

That would be difficult to do as the pin doesn't stick out each side
& the ends are slightly tapered so it would have to be struck
extremely hard to force it to expand into the hole with enough
upset to stay put.

Unfortunately there is a spring retaining slot cut into the pin on
each side just inside the frame so if the pin is hit hard enough
to upset the end it would probably also crush the spring slot closed
& shorten the pin or bend the pin.

Even if a person could upset both ends of the pin enough to hold
tight that pin goes through the hammer spring housing inside the
frame with a net fit so the pin would have to be drilled out to get
it out in the future.

I did some calling & research, it appears that Ruger has released
a new pin retaining spring to hold that migrating pin in place so
that is probably the correct way to stop the pin from migrating out.

I have a new (updated) spring coming so will see if I can work it
into place without fully removing the hammer spring housing, hammer,
& sear.
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