LC9 Trigger pull (Multiple threads)

[Rat]

Originally Posted by mb1911

I've been on the fence about my LC9 -- keep it or sell it? The trigger is a big issue for me, as for everyone else. I've been waiting for people to try out fixes -- such as the trigger kit from Galloway -- and Rob's videos and posts has been very informative to me on this journey. Now I see this! I'm not sure what to do, and I'd appreciate any input.

I have a stock LC9. I haven't gotten the Galloway trigger kit, partly because I waited so long for the early adopters to report on it, that by the time I felt confident I'd want to try it, Galloway is all out. But now if the LC9, even with Galloway kit, won't compare to the M&P Shield, then it seems like it's time for me to sign up for something else. Should I still try Galloway's kit when it finally arrives? (Any rumors on the ETA?)

I've played with an M&P 9c. I wasn't a fan of the trigger. Of the compact guns in that range, I prefer the Glock or the XD trigger. Does the Shield have the same trigger, or is it an improvement? (I heard that added a tactile & auditory reset, but what about the trigger pull?)

It seems that the best thing may be to wait for the M&P Shield to become more available, and just trade the LC9 for it. Alternatively, I have my eye on the Sig P938...

Contact Galloway and he will give you the needed info to ship you LC9 to him and he will fix it up, test fire it and send it back. You will be very pleased with your LC9 once you get the trigger fixed.

If you are capable in taking the LC9 completely apart then just send him the trigger bar and hammer and he will do the needed modifications to them. My only problem with just sending the parts is that they might get lost unless you go first class with them.

I did mine myself. My first attempt was a fail and I had to get a new trigger bar. Not an easy feat since Ruger quit selling just the trigger bars and hammers and they are calling them a factory fit item.

I have had a few guys with stock LC9s shoot mine and they could not believe how much better it is and they want me to do theirs also. Due to lawyers etc, I elected to turn them down since they are not close friends.

But Galloway was buying stock parts from Ruger and modifying them and selling them. Ruger caught wind of what was going on and they are now no longer selling these parts ,alone, because of it. That is what they told me when I called and tried to get a trigger bar.

Below are pictures of my trigger at rest and trigger at the break point (when it goes bang). Also a picture of my LCI with a spent casing in the chamber and my modified front sight.

I also removed the mag disconnect and filed and polished up the front side of the blocker button and cut two winds off the blocker button spring and two winds off the blocker button arm spring.

[moakes58]

Originally Posted by mb1911

I don't think I'm the only one: I can shoot DA or DAO without problems, but the ergonomics of the gun has to be better than what LC9 provides. The grip is so tiny that the gun shifts around in my hand. By the time I'm done wrapping the grip in tape, it's as fat as a double stack, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a single stack. The fit to my hand is so poor that after around 20 presses of the trigger, I start feeling this pinch in my hand, and I can no longer break the trigger. I thought I'd get used to the LC9 and overcome this problem, but I never did.

Any advice from the DAO experts?

No DAO expert can fix the gun not fitting your hand properly. The gun & your hand are the same as when you bought the gun & if it did not feel good the first time you picked it up, that's not going to improve over time.

[jimnor]

Originally Posted by moakes58

39 pages of posts for a very good gun that works fine IF(a big if) you learn how to shoot a DAO trigger properly. That is truly amazing.

It sounds as if you're saying that if a person doesn't think the stock LC9 trigger is just fine, the only explanation is that the person doesn't know how to properly shoot a DAO trigger. I'm not sure that's the only explanation. In my opinion there are plenty of DAO guns with better triggers. They are not all created equal. I may not know how to properly shoot a DAO trigger but I do know that the stock LC9 trigger was not just fine for me. It may simply be because I don't know how to properly shoot a DAO trigger but I don't think so. I for one am grateful that there is a simple way to improve it for me. I'm sure lots of people are just fine with the stock LC9 trigger. I'm just as sure that lots of people think it could be better. For those who think it could be better, why begrudge them the chance to be happier with their gun? What seems truly amazing is that 39 pages could just be dismissed as 39 pages of folks who don't know how to properly shoot a DAO trigger. Come on. Sorry for the rant. Don't want to start a war but it just seems to me that some trigger pulls are better than others in some people's opinions and not simply because they don't know what they are doing when it comes to shooting a DAO trigger.

[Rat]

Originally Posted by moakes58

39 pages of posts for a very good gun that works fine IF(a big if) you learn how to shoot a DAO trigger properly. That is truly amazing.

Mine still has a DAO trigger, just it is half the pull length that it used to be and is now buttery smooth instead of gritty. Still takes the same pull weight also.

There is no way on this earth that a trigger has to have an inch plus of travel before anything happens. This is proven that you don't need all that travel with the modification of the hammer and trigger bar.

[robkarrob]

I was the biggest booster of the LC9 with the Galloway kit. All of the following comparisons are with the Galloway Trigger Kit installed in my LC9. The stock LC9 trigger would not be close to compare to the Shield's trigger. There are those people that feel the stock LC9 trigger pull is fine. They have never fired a LC9 with the Galloway Trigger kit. The Galloway Kit reduces trigger pull and reset by half that of the stock LC9 trigger while moving the break point forward to the center of the trigger guard as compared to the stock break point at the rear of the trigger guard. Eric Galloway should soon be selling his trigger kits. He has custom made trigger bars in stock, but until he gets his custom made hammers in, the trigger bars are of no use. Keep checking his site for updates: Ruger SR9 SR40 SR9c SR40c, Galloway Precision Home

I purchased my Shield 40 in mid May The first Shield 9mm's came out the end of March. The Shield 40's came out the beginning of May. . I bought my LC9 in September 2011. If the Shield was available then, I would never had purchased the LC9. The only advantage the LC9 has is it is "slightly" smaller (1/8 inch shorter in length, 1/8 inch shorter in height, and 1/16 inch thinner). The LC9 weighs 3 ounces less than the Shield. The Shield is striker fired and as such you can reduce the trigger pull weight to whatever you want (2.5 pounds and up). The lowest the LC9 can be reduced safely (hammer fired), to insure it will always fire, is 6 1/2 pounds pull. Any less than that and you risk getting light hits. The stock pull on the LC9 is 8 pounds.

I have already put a trigger kit in my Shield 40, and my total pull length to break point is just over 1/16 inch with 4.25 pounds trigger pull. The best I could get my highly modified LC9 pull to break was 5/16 inch with 6.5 pounds of trigger pull.

Not only is the Shield's trigger pull much shorter than the LC9's, but the reset is much better. You can hardly hear the LC9's hammer reset (reset #2), and there is no trigger feel for the reset. The Shield has the latest designed trigger, for the Smith & Wesson M&P models. It has a short, smooth pull, with a crisp break, and a felt reset point. None of the other M&P models have as good of trigger as the Shield. S&W is eventually going to incorporate the Shield's trigger into the full line of M&P pistols. The Shield's reset is loud, and can be heard from 20 feet away. But in a noisy environment you could not hear either the LC9 or Shield's reset. But with the Shield you can feel the reset. As you release the trigger, the trigger jumps about 1/32 inch at reset. That 1/32 jump of the trigger can be easily felt and the trigger can be immediately be pulled again, from that point. On the LC9 you can't feel the reset and the trigger has to be fully released which is 7/16 inch with the Galloway kit. On a stock Shield that motion of pull to break and release to reset is less than 1/4 inch. On my modified Shield that motion is 1/8 inch.

The Shield comes with two magazines (one with the LC9) and the Shield does not have a magazine safety, which most everyone wants removed from the LC9. Size wise the LC9 wins. I pocket carry both the LC9 and the Shield and I don't find the Shields slightly larger size, and heavier weight to be an issue. Trigger wise the stock Shield wins easily. I have over $60 in the Galloway Kit plus many hours of fine tuning the inner working parts in an attempt to make the LC9's trigger better. Many people say in a SD situation, the trigger doesn't matter. My opinion is a better trigger makes a better shooter. I would rather know my gun is a good shooter, than think it wouldn't matter in a SD situation.

Video of the stock Shield compared to the LC9 with Galloway kit:

M&P Shield 40 Trigger Pull and Measurements - YouTube

Video of modified Shield trigger. Go to the 39 minute 30 second time frame:

M&P Shield Apex Tactical Trigger Kit Install - YouTube


Bob

[mb1911]

Thanks, Bob/robkarrob and others. I agree with you that a better shooter is better for a self-defense situation. That's why I started looking for ways to modify the LC9. You have been enormously informative and helpful. I just hope Ruger will get around to designing a better pistol.

Your analysis about the relative merit of the Shield vs the LC9 seals the issue for me. But I decided to go ahead and get the trigger job anyway, since it will probably be a while before I can compare the Sig P938 and the Shield...

[BarNone]

After finally getting to shoot my new LC9 I must agree that the trigger pull leaves a lot to be desired! The gun is very comfortable even in my large hands but the depth of trigger pull is not. It would probably be more comfortable to those with small or petite hands.
I love everything else about it, it is extremely comfortable to carry in my pocket with a sticky pocket holster.
I will be looking to install the Galloway kit but I don't want to modify my factory parts.

[Rat]

BarNone, I am sorry to say but you are going to be stuck getting your stock trigger bar and hammer modified unless for some odd reason you can convince Ruger to start selling the parts again.

I gave up on the Galloway parts along time ago, I couldn't wait so I tried it myself, failed the first time but learned why I failed, by luck I was able to find another trigger bar. I knew what needed to be done but all the modifications to the trigger bar had weakened it, It would only work for about 10 rounds then it would bend.



Why ruger designed this pistol this way is beyond me. You don't need more then an inch of travel to still have a double action trigger. I still have a 6+ lb double action trigger but it is now a little less then half the travel that it was.


I wish Ruger had a little better quality control also, Mine came with the front sight pinned way to the right, also the thing shoots more then 5 inches low at 15 ft. This is not right since the sights don't have any elevation adjustment at all and very little windage adjustment.

[BarNone]

If necessary I will send my parts in. But would prefer to wait a bit and see if they get them in as expected. End of July was date I was told to expect them to be available. In the meantime it is still functional and allows my to carry in summer attire.

[jlh820]

Originally Posted by BarNone

After finally getting to shoot my new LC9 I must agree that the trigger pull leaves a lot to be desired! The gun is very comfortable even in my large hands but the depth of trigger pull is not. It would probably be more comfortable to those with small or petite hands.
I love everything else about it, it is extremely comfortable to carry in my pocket with a sticky pocket holster.
I will be looking to install the Galloway kit but I don't want to modify my factory parts.

The trigger and my large hands are what led me to give my LC9 to my son. I tried the Galloway parts and Rockarob even worked with me over the phone, but we couldn't resolve a light strike problem (with the mods I was willing to do) that occurred after the Galloway mods. I was able to order a stock trigger bar and hammer from Ruger (but that was a few months ago) without a problem and put the gun back to factory specs. It solved the light strike problem and the gun was reliable again, but the trigger was back to where I started. I found that for me, firing more than 20-30 rounds would start to rub a blister on the bottom of my trigger finger. I've got other guns with long trigger pulls, but I've never had one that made the bottom of my trigger finger rub on the bottom of the trigger guard like the LC9. Good luck with yours.

[robkarrob]

I will again state that Galloway Precision should be selling the Trigger Kits soon. He can no longer order the stock hammers and trigger bars from Ruger, since Ruger is no longer selling these parts. Per Ruger "they are factory installed only", which means even FFL's can't get them. Galloway would modify the stock hammer and trigger bars to enable the shorter trigger pull and moving the break point up to the middle of the trigger guard.

Please understand that you have to have both a modified hammer and a modified trigger bar installed. It will not work by just trying to modify only the trigger bar.

Since Galloway could no longer get the parts, and there was big demand for his trigger kits, he made a big investment in having custom trigger bars and hammers made. He has the trigger bars in stock, but is still waiting on the hammers. They were supposed to be in a few weeks ago, but since he is not selling them yet, a problem has occurred. Possibly the manufacturer could not make the deadline or they were made wrong and had to be re-made. I will contact Eric and see if he can make a post in this thread regarding the release date.

I agree that I would not want to send Galloway the hammer and trigger bar for modifications. If you had a problem with the gun and had to send it in for repair, Ruger would pull the Galloway modified parts, not returning them back to you. Ruger would then install the stock parts and charge you for labor and parts.

I have a fully modified LC9 and know what an improvement it is compared to the stock LC9. There are a lot of people that would never modify their guns. There are some that say they would not modify their carry gun. Well and fine as I would never try to change their mind. The modifications are not going to make the LC9 unsafe or unreliable. When I first got my LC9, I could adjust my shooting with the stock LC9 to be fairly accurate with it, but I didn't like the trigger pull. Those of you that don't like the stock LC9 trigger will be very happy when you get the Galloway Trigger Kit. If you follow some of my YouTube videos, you will find it is easy to install and well worth the money. You can eliminate all of the stacking of the pull just before the break point, and reduce the pull weight by a pound with Galloway's reduced power springs, with no worry of light hits.

The trigger pull will not only feel better, but will also make it easier to be more accurate. The Kit won't make the LC9 more accurate. It makes it easier to pull the trigger, with the break moved well forward. This allows for better trigger control, which should produce improved accuracy. Those with large hands like me will appreciate the break point moved to near the middle of the trigger guard.


Bob

[Egalloway]

[QUOTE=Rat;670950]Contact Galloway and he will give you the needed info to ship you LC9 to him and he will fix it up, test fire it and send it back. You will be very pleased with your LC9 once you get the trigger fixed.

But Galloway was buying stock parts from Ruger and modifying them and selling them. Ruger caught wind of what was going on and they are now no longer selling these parts ,alone, because of it. That is what they told me when I called and tried to get a trigger bar.QUOTE]

Thanks for the plug, we are covered up with the mods at about 3000 + done now. You'd think Ruger would have said something when I told the parts people what I was buying 6000 dollars worth of hammers and bars every two weeks for. Guess 30000 ish in easy sales in less than 2 months and them sending customers to us wasn't working. But anyways...

We are blessed with business guys. Here is the sitrep. I was promised 5000 hammers from a casting company by mid June, I told folks mid July to give room for the constant delays I seem to deal with. Well somehow that got screwed up and the purchase order fell out their system blah blah. I have no idea. I am working with 4 casters now trying to get some produced, may be flying to CO shortly to meet in person with a company that specializes in low volume like this, under 100000 a month is low volume to most. I have bars ready, a 5 gallon bucket piled full of them, they need the hole reamed and the tab bent on the die. But with out the hammer they are useless. So please understand I am trying, but for whatever reason I get kicked in the teeth every time we get close to having the hammers cast.
Those of you concerned about modding your stock parts I understand. But keep in mind the last page of your owners manual. It clearly states no written or implied warranty. Your at their mercy anyways.
So I am working on it but I have no idea when I will have hammers in. Until I do I'm not going to invest another 8 grand in the bars to finish them. I will announce on here and the site as soon as I have them I promise.
Thanks
Eric

[Egalloway]

Originally Posted by jlh820

The trigger and my large hands are what led me to give my LC9 to my son. I tried the Galloway parts and Rockarob even worked with me over the phone, but we couldn't resolve a light strike problem (with the mods I was willing to do) that occurred after the Galloway mods. I was able to order a stock trigger bar and hammer from Ruger (but that was a few months ago) without a problem and put the gun back to factory specs. It solved the light strike problem and the gun was reliable again, but the trigger was back to where I started. I found that for me, firing more than 20-30 rounds would start to rub a blister on the bottom of my trigger finger. I've got other guns with long trigger pulls, but I've never had one that made the bottom of my trigger finger rub on the bottom of the trigger guard like the LC9. Good luck with yours.

Doh! I apologize we were not able to get you going, if you still have the parts send them back for a refund or let me send you a new firing pin return spring, the 25mm unit on the older guns caused issues in the stock gun, our mod can show that quick on some. The replacement 20mm long spring Ruger uses now works great, we have our own being made. That is the cause on all I've dealt with save one. We also now have a taller anchor pin that increases spring rate on the hammer spring.

[Egalloway]

Rob thanks for all your hard work and honest input. Let me know what you think of that shield, I wasn't all that impressed with the one we got after I stripped it and saw stock MP parts, or how tall it was. Nice just not much different than the mp compact double stack. Our bodyguard 380 stuff is in the works now. That is a nice little gun, to bad they did not chamber it in 9 mm and scale it up about 10%

[Rat]

Originally Posted by jlh820

The trigger and my large hands are what led me to give my LC9 to my son. I tried the Galloway parts and Rockarob even worked with me over the phone, but we couldn't resolve a light strike problem (with the mods I was willing to do) that occurred after the Galloway mods. I was able to order a stock trigger bar and hammer from Ruger (but that was a few months ago) without a problem and put the gun back to factory specs. It solved the light strike problem and the gun was reliable again, but the trigger was back to where I started. I found that for me, firing more than 20-30 rounds would start to rub a blister on the bottom of my trigger finger. I've got other guns with long trigger pulls, but I've never had one that made the bottom of my trigger finger rub on the bottom of the trigger guard like the LC9. Good luck with yours.

Just an idea that worked for me. I noticed a light strike when I first did mine. The bar was letting go of the trigger too soon thus not building up enough spring pressure on the hammer.

I bent the tab a little more just slightly and that helped greatly. Also I reworked the ramp in the opening of the trigger bar so that it was not pushing down out of the hammer so soon. I also filed the ramp on top of the trigger bar slightly since the molding in the action was also pushing the trigger bar down.

Now the only time I have a problem is when using Winchester white box. Then it is only once and a great while. Like 1 out of 100 shots.