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decision time on 9mm pistol

This is a discussion on decision time on 9mm pistol within the Ruger Pistols forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; Right now I have to say that I'm leaning to the 92FS. I'll have to rent both the CZ and the 92FS and see which ...


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Old December 30th, 2016, 05:03 PM   #31
 
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Right now I have to say that I'm leaning to the 92FS. I'll have to rent both the CZ and the 92FS and see which one feels better.



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Old December 30th, 2016, 05:03 PM   #32
 
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You're not going to find a new Beretta Cougar; and the Stoegers don't have the same fit and finish as the Berettas had, IMO. That being said, the Cougar that I owned (a friend now owns it) was a nice shooter. I think the rotating barrel mitigated some of the recoil, but it was a 9mm anyway so who knows.

As for the accuracy of the RAP, I own 5 of them; and they are all equally accurate if you are working the trigger properly.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 05:05 PM   #33
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojasj View Post
Right now I have to say that I'm leaning to the 92FS. I'll have to rent both the CZ and the 92FS and see which one feels better.
How big is your hand? The 92 can be kind of beefy-feeling if you don't have at least average to large hands. I personally like the grip, but I'm also using the large sized grips on the RAP pistols.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 05:23 PM   #34
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalreload View Post
How big is your hand? The 92 can be kind of beefy-feeling if you don't have at least average to large hands. I personally like the grip, but I'm also using the large sized grips on the RAP pistols.
Good question. I would say I have average size hands. My glove size is a large. I tend to be bothered more by smaller slimmer grips such as those on the 9mm M&P Shield, larger grips don't seem to be much of an issue for me (unless they are way big).
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Old December 30th, 2016, 05:24 PM   #35
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalreload View Post
How big is your hand? The 92 can be kind of beefy-feeling if you don't have at least average to large hands. I personally like the grip, but I'm also using the large sized grips on the RAP pistols.
As a point of reference I use the medium back strap on my 45 ACP RAP but the large back strap felt just fine too.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 06:16 PM   #36
 
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You should be good to go with the Beretta, I would think. It's more of an issue for some people because of the long and heavy double action pull. If it's a problem, you can try an M9A3; but you're looking at probably $1k by the time you get it home. Of course, being from NJ, you'll have a while to save up for it. ;-)
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Old December 30th, 2016, 06:23 PM   #37
 
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I like the 92FS safeties way better than the CZ.

The 1911 in 9mm is a great choice, too.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 06:26 PM   #38
 
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The Beretta 92 series pistols are among the best handguns ever made. In my opinion that is. They do have large grips but that is what I prefer and mine is more accurate than I am for sure. Plus they go bang every single time.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 06:53 PM   #39
 
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If you do end up with a 92FS and plan on keeping it a long time and shooting it a lot, I'd look for a Brigadier. High mileage 92's have sometimes been known to crack their slides. Some folks will say that this is only limited to much older guns or those shooting high pressure rounds, but I've seen enough grumbling online about it from supposedly solid sources that I would image it's possibly a problem. Plus if Super Dave says it happens, I believe it.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 08:11 PM   #40
 
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Ive read where the slide cracking on the original 92 F was due to an area on the underside of the slide. The military cracked one during the 1987 XM 17 test. Beretta changed how they milled that area, and it fixed the problem. Which was very rare to begin with. They also speculated it was due to using +p+ ammo.
Ive never seen or heard of a factory 92 cracking since. I have read where the bobcats & tomcats cracking is more common.
My original 92 F bought back in 1990 never cracked, and I quit keeping track of round count after 10,000. Im not sure where my round count was in the end, but it never broke a part and ran like a champ. The military tested them to 35,000, and they were still running.

The only 100% plastic " polymere" part is the guide rod and grips. And the guide rod is better left alone. The stainless rods make the pistol develop a vibration/shock that goes through the pistol into your hand when firing. It can be felt, and IMO, is annoying. When they gave the Marine Corps a bunch of upgraded 92 pistols with metal guide rods, they changed them back to polymere. Ive never read or heard of a polymere guide rod breaking.
The triggers, left side safety and mag release are polymere coated metal to make the pull smoother and cause less wear and longer life.

Thats one of the differences I failed to mention earlier. 92's dont have the best trigger, but most CZ's come factory with a pretty good trigger .Which get much better with a little break in period. I like putting a #13 mainspring in my CZ's. Thats changes the pull from 7 lbs to 4 lbs. That really lightens the SA trigger up and smooths out the DA pull. But IMO, its too light for a 75B to carry cocked and locked. My CZ's are all decockers. And a 75 BD can be had for right at $500 at several online gun shops. Plus you can get a KADET kit that shoots 22lr, which they run great. Our son has the kit on his 75BD, everyone that shoots it loves it, but it does require the original factory mainspring.

The SP01 tactical is my next CZ purchase, when I can find one.
The 75B stainless are over priced IMO. And it sounds like NJ is adding to that.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 08:32 PM   #41
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalreload View Post
If you do end up with a 92FS and plan on keeping it a long time and shooting it a lot, I'd look for a Brigadier. High mileage 92's have sometimes been known to crack their slides. Some folks will say that this is only limited to much older guns or those shooting high pressure rounds, but I've seen enough grumbling online about it from supposedly solid sources that I would image it's possibly a problem. Plus if Super Dave says it happens, I believe it.
Not true. It only happened during military testing back in the mid 1980's and was with overpowered ammo & high round counts. I've been on forums & there's always one guy that swears he saw (or knows a guy that saw) a Beretta explode & nearly kill someone. It's a rumor mainly spread by Beretta haters or people that have never owned one & have no clue what they're talking about. After military testing on the 92SB models, Beretta added a slide safety feature (that's the groove on the bottom/left of the slides) in case of slide breakage and named it the 92FS. I've never heard of an actual breakage or injury since.

Here's a good read... The True Story of the Beretta M9 Pistol
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Old December 30th, 2016, 08:42 PM   #42
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCD327 View Post
Ive read where the slide cracking on the original 92 F was due to an area on the underside of the slide. The military cracked one during the 1987 XM 17 test. Beretta changed how they milled that area, and it fixed the problem. Which was very rare to begin with. They also speculated it was due to using +p+ ammo.
Ive never seen or heard of a factory 92 cracking since. I have read where the bobcats & tomcats cracking is more common.
My original 92 F bought back in 1990 never cracked, and I quit keeping track of round count after 10,000. Im not sure where my round count was in the end, but it never broke a part and ran like a champ. The military tested them to 35,000, and they were still running.

The only 100% plastic " polymere" part is the guide rod and grips. And the guide rod is better left alone. The stainless rods make the pistol develop a vibration/shock that goes through the pistol into your hand when firing. It can be felt, and IMO, is annoying. When they gave the Marine Corps a bunch of upgraded 92 pistols with metal guide rods, they changed them back to polymere. Ive never read or heard of a polymere guide rod breaking.
The triggers, left side safety and mag release are polymere coated metal to make the pull smoother and cause less wear and longer life.

Thats one of the differences I failed to mention earlier. 92's dont have the best trigger, but most CZ's come factory with a pretty good trigger .Which get much better with a little break in period. I like putting a #13 mainspring in my CZ's. Thats changes the pull from 7 lbs to 4 lbs. That really lightens the SA trigger up and smooths out the DA pull. But IMO, its too light for a 75B to carry cocked and locked. My CZ's are all decockers. And a 75 BD can be had for right at $500 at several online gun shops. Plus you can get a KADET kit that shoots 22lr, which they run great. Our son has the kit on his 75BD, everyone that shoots it loves it, but it does require the original factory mainspring.

The SP01 tactical is my next CZ purchase, when I can find one.
The 75B stainless are over priced IMO. And it sounds like NJ is adding to that.
As for plastic guide rods... I have not had one fail in a Beretta, but I haven't owned a Beretta 92 long enough to say one way or another. I have, however, had numerous other issues with plastic guide rods in other guns. I've had the base chip on a couple of them. I also had one that warped to the point that it caused the gun to malfunction. I personally prefer steel guide rods... or at least to keep an eye on the plastic one closely and swap it out regularly.

As for the slides cracking, google "Beretta 92 slide crack". You'll likely find quite a number of people from LE departments stating that they have cracked slides or sheared barrel lugs. As I mentioned before, "Super Dave" Harrington stated that when working to develop the 92G-SD, they specifically used the Brigadier slides because of slide cracking issues. If you don't know who Dave Harrington is, look him up. He probably knows as much or more about the Beretta 92 than anyone out there. Beretta themselves state that the Brigadier (which has a beefier section right where the cracks are most likely to develop) has "enhanced durability". There are also a number of people who have reported that, after getting a crack in their slide and contact Beretta, that Beretta states that this is considered "normal wear and tear" and that the slide is a "wear part" not covered under warranty. Take what you will from that and choose to either believe it or not... either way, it's a piece of information that is useful to consider (or not). Honestly, it seems like there are FAR more reports of cracked / sheared locking blocks / barrel lugs.

I'm guessing that the average person who maintains their gun and doesn't put a whole lot of +P or +P+ ammo through it will never experience an issue. I wouldn't have a problem owning another 92 if I had the money laying around.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 09:03 PM   #43
 
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Thank for all the input folks, I appreciate it. As this thread rolls on I think I've come to realize that I don't "need" another pistol, rather I "want" a full size pistol in 9mm. Perhaps what I should do is take the money I have for the pistol and put it toward more reloading supplies such as a new turret press to replace my single stage press and then shoot more.

Good, bad.. idea?
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Old December 30th, 2016, 09:31 PM   #44
 
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Rojas- I see you might consider a CZ P09. I have one and it's one of my favorites. Fits my hands well, shoots very easily- probably the best recoil of any polymer 9mm I have. I've had no issues with it after shooting it in IDPA all season.

A very good gun, usually less expensive than the 75 series.

A hearty endorsement and recommendation for the P09.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 09:42 PM   #45
 
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Can you order from KY Gun Co and have it shipped into the NJSSR? Even the 75 SP-01 Tactical was under $700, shipped.
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