Waveform

I had the opportunity to stop by the local indoor range and shoot around lunch time and took my LCR model 5405 38+P for some practice. I shot a box of 50 standard 38 spec and then decided to shoot 5 rounds of the Hornady Critical Defense I carry in it plus the remainder of a box (15 rounds) of some Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense 38 spec +P.



I had decided earlier to carry the Hornady so I was just going to use up the Remington. The Remington was noticeably "snappier" in recoil and I was aware there was considerably more flame escaping from the front of the cylinder on every round. When I cleaned the gun later this afternoon I found that the cylinder finish was now pitted slightly at the end of each round and there is now flame cutting in the top of the frame above the forcing cone/barrel.







Is this common? The standard .38 spec. I have shot did not do this - 150 rounds so far - nor did the Hornady +P. Anybody else had a similar experience? I don't know what the finish is on the cylinder of the LCR but it doesn't handle hot loads very well.

TNWNGR

That's lead residue and will clean off w/o a lot of difficulty.

Waveform

I'm afraid not. Sorry for my poor photos but the flame cutting in the top strap is eaten into the metal, not a residue. And the gray coating on the cylinder has flaked off in those little spots you see in the pictures revealing the metal underneath. I wish it would clean off but there's material missing, not stuck on. Perhaps this is common when you reach the 200 round mark with these revolvers? Hoping to hear from other LCR 38+P owners with more range time to see if this is typical or not. I seem to recall someone posting finish flaking off their cylinder on a 22LR version.

weblance

Call Ruger and see what they say. I have none of the cylinder finish damage on my KLCR. The cylinders are the same material. The KLCR(357) has a stainless frame, and your 38+P has an aluminum frame, so I cant help there...

1mathom1

Doesn't look good. Let us know what you find out. I have fired several +p rounds but do not see any of that. Yet.

MikeE

I had a 540 Model LCR with very similar flame cutting. Later, had the issue of trigger working when the cylinder was out. Just got a new gun from Ruger. Definitely call them!

Waveform

Guess I'll give Ruger a call. I know their customer service is great from my recent experience with my SP-101 so I'm sure they will respond. The gun also is a Davidson's distribution gun and they have a lifetime replacement guarantee so I have that as a back up. (sigh)

Waveform

Stopped in at my LGS and showed them the damage. We looked at it under the scope too and it is definitely not a residue. Since this was a Davidson's gun he called Davidson's and they are overnighting a replacement today. I'll have a new one tomorrow! I will still avoid this ammo in the future...

rantingredneck

I've got a low SN LCR .38. I bought one of the first available in my area when they first came out. I've got probably 800 rounds through it with a healthy dose of those being .38+P from Federal (38G LSWCHP+P) and Winchester (white box, and PDX1). I have no flame cutting or erosion of the cylinders as seen above. Makes you wonder what powder was in those loads........

TNWNGR

I've thought on this a bit and think this is something you should run by Remington as well. Do you recall what the primers looked like on the spent shells? Regardless, this has been an informative thread.

Waveform

I don't reload so they look like ordinary primers to me. I have them - I tossed them in my .38 spec. coffee can. (I keep my old brass because I want to get into reloading someday soon and it's easy to keep track of the revolver brass. Pistol brass I get lazy and leave laying around the range where staff comes along and sweeps it up.) What would you be looking for TNWNGR? Unfortunately I shot the rest of the box so I don't have any unshot rounds left for any analysis.

I had this LCR for only about 3 weeks and shot no more than 200 rounds total in 2 sessions. Of the total there were 150 .38 spec, 15 Hornady Critical Defense and 25 of the Remington HD pictured above. So that's actually 190 rounds with 40 being +P. All were factory loads and only the Remington HD had the noticeable flash from the front of the cylinder.

BTW, under a microscope the scarring on the ends of the cylinder contained tiny fragments of molten metal that were blown back and fused to the cylinder. You could literally see where the blast had melted metal and pushed it backwards. This in addition to finish material missing. The flame cut area on the top strap when viewed under microscope revealed a trickle of melted metal running down to the top of the barrel. Very interesting to see - too bad I couldn't capture it on camera somehow.

There was no apparent end shake I could detect but I left the gun at the dealer now and didn't have a chance to try feeler gauges to see if there was an excessive gap between the cylinder and the barrel. All appeared normal to the eye.

What little I know about flame cutting seems related to bullets that are too light, ie. 110 gr in a .357 Mag. In this case the Remington HD were 125 gr. Moreover, the Hornady Critical Defense +P I shot were 110 gr and had obviously less recoil (expected with lighter bullet I suppose) than the Remington and no obvious flash from the cylinder. The standard .38 spec have all been 130 - 138 gr. I am convinced the flame cutting was from the Remington HD. Does anyone know if the .357 version of the LCR has restrictions on how light the bullets can be? My friend's S&W AirLite has "NO LESS THAN 120 GR .357" stamped on the barrel. Just curious. His Airlite also has a tiny metal strap placed in the top strap right where flame cutting would occur. Interesting. I can't find any restrictions on bullet weight for the .38+P LCR.

Well, I hope I haven't been beating this to death. I'm getting a brand new LCR tomorrow so I'm happy. It is unfortunate that Ruger will not get a direct head's up on this one. I'm sure it will end up back in NH as part of a shipment of warranty returns and they'll probably assume someone was shooting something they shouldn't have.

Outlaw450

Looks like that Remington ammo worked as good as any Remington product iv ever had.

rantingredneck

I'm far from a Remington-basher. I figure they are the second most represented company in my gun safe (behind Ruger). But I have to admit, they turn out crap fairly often these days. I have friends who work for Remington who'll sadly say the same thing.


When it comes to ammo, this experience here taught me to trust no one and proceed with care:



What's wrong with that ^ picture.........

Alpo

Most of those boolits are loaded backwards! (at least they got that one round in right)

rantingredneck

Yep, that's their new .243 Winchester Corelokt Wadcutter round.....