Ruger Forum

Waveform · September 7th, 2012, 02:34 AM

Final comment - picked up the replacement yesterday afternoon and see that the finish on the cylinder is now black instead of gray. Maybe just a cosmetic decision on Ruger's part or perhaps a different material? Looking forward to a range session to try it out. Will stay away from the Remington ammo though!

DPris · September 7th, 2012, 08:00 AM

When I did a 5000-round (ended up being closer to 5300) test on a .38 LCR a while back there was measurable frame stretching along with an increased barrel/cylinder gap, but no corrosion on the cylinder like you're showing & no flame cutting to speak of.

There have been reports of flame cutting, but they're fairly rare.
Denis

bearcatter · September 7th, 2012, 09:37 AM

There is a post on the GunTalk forum about a LCR-22 that has lost lots of cylinder finish and has erosion on the crane (which is supposedly investment cast stainless on all LCRs).
This is after only a few hundred rounds.

A little past middle of page here:

GunTalk-Online.com :: View topic - My new LCR .22

(Jack D is a member here also)

Waveform · September 7th, 2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPris

When I did a 5000-round (ended up being closer to 5300) test on a .38 LCR a while back there was measurable frame stretching along with an increased barrel/cylinder gap, but no corrosion on the cylinder like you're showing & no flame cutting to speak of.

There have been reports of flame cutting, but they're fairly rare.
Denis

Denis - when you did the torture test on the LCR was it all standard .38 spec or all +P or a mix?

Time will tell on the replacement - will try to shoot it soon and often and see what happens.

exlogger · September 7th, 2012, 03:24 PM

I've been waiting to see how these things hold up over time before I buy one.

My mother-in-law has had a 642 with an aluminum frame for 2 years and the finish is already chipping off.

I would prefer a more natural finish of the aluminum and stainless rather than these painted on cosmetic ones. They may look nicer coming out of the box, but the laws of physics will soon prevail.

When I get a scratch on my stainless Rugers I just run a Scotchbrite pad over the scratch and it looks good as new.

Here is an interesting read about a cracked LCR. Could have been the ammo though.

Ruger LCR Blows Up | The Truth About Guns

DPris · September 8th, 2012, 05:34 AM

5000 straight Black Hills premium .38+ as the main body of the test, with another fifty or so of those to establish a Before accuracy baseline & an After accuracy comparison.
There were also other loads tested, total count roughly 5300.
Denis

Waveform · September 8th, 2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPris

5000 straight Black Hills premium .38+ as the main body of the test, with another fifty or so of those to establish a Before accuracy baseline & an After accuracy comparison.
There were also other loads tested, total count roughly 5300.
Denis

Thanks Denis. I'm starting to really suspect the Remington HD may have been a box that came from the factory loaded "hot". The recoil compared to the Hornady CD +P was noticeably sharper and the report seemed louder too. And there was the ring of fire coming out of the front of the cylinder the other ammo didn't produce. Since I shot them all I don't have any left to examine or send in to Remington.

I did have a chance to look at the LCR one last time at the LGS before it went back to Davidson's and checked the B/C gap with a feeler gauge. It was fine. In fact, it was .005 and the new LCR was .006.

DPris · September 9th, 2012, 08:51 AM

There have been reports of problems with the guns, but they're fairly rare & I think the odds of getting a bad one are low.
Any gun from anybody is a gamble, all makers put out the occasional lemon, but most from the better brands are good to go.

I was frankly surprised that the test sample held up as well as it did.
Major wear was on the rubber grips, took off most of the Ruger logo.

Gap grew from .008 to .010, trigger dropped from 9 pounds to 10.
Forcing cone gauged GO both before & after.
Sights were slightly off, but usable.
Gun shot better After than it did Before.

Denis

Breadman03 · September 9th, 2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rantingredneck

I'm far from a Remington-basher. I figure they are the second most represented company in my gun safe (behind Ruger). But I have to admit, they turn out crap fairly often these days. I have friends who work for Remington who'll sadly say the same thing.

When it comes to ammo, this experience here taught me to trust no one and proceed with care:

What's wrong with that ^ picture.........

That's just innovation! Wadcutter rounds for rifles are the next big thing!

pizzapablo · September 25th, 2012, 09:51 AM

When researching a used LCR, Ruger customer service sent an email, here is an exerpt:
" The aluminum flame cutting has been sporadic and rare. We have shot a number of them to over 5000 rounds each with 158 grain +P and in every case the flame cutting stops and ends up being only a cosmetic issue. It does not create a strength issue."

Well, I bought that gun. It has a SN of 540-32xxx. Yesterday I shot 40 Winchester 130 grn, FMJ and 30 Speer Gold Dot 53921, 38 + P, 135grn.
Towards the end of the session, I fired from retention, unsupported, using the Speer +P. Right handed, no issue. Left handed, the cylinder opened every round or two, thru 15 rounds. I loaded 5 of the Winchester FMJ and the cylinder remained locked, when fired left hand, unsupported, from retention.

I emailed Ruger, this morning.

andybothel · September 25th, 2012, 10:10 AM

I'm glad you got a replacement so quick.

I will say I also avoid Remington ammo. I haven't been impressed with anything I've tried of there's. I do want an 870, but I wouldn't be shooting Remington ammo out of it. Just me though.

I've seen only a very few reports of issues like this with the LCR. Sorry you were one of them.

bearcatter · September 25th, 2012, 10:24 AM

My replacement LCR-22 has a black cylinder as well. Checked Ruger's website, which now lists "Ionbond DiamondBlack" as the finish. The old finish was "Target Grey", which is on my LCR-357. I understand the Ionbond is a coating, while Target Grey is just a surface treatment caused by tumbling the part in a special media.

Springer Precision's website cover's its use on guns pretty well:

IonBond :: Springer Precision

Or the home company's site gets more technical:

Ionbond International *-*PVD, PACVD, PECVD, CVD, DLC, ADLC, thin-film, coatings, hard coatings, protective coatings, Tetrabond, Hardcut

I would just as soon both cylinders had Ruger's brushed finish on bare stainless.

Waveform · September 25th, 2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andybothel

...I will say I also avoid Remington ammo. I haven't been impressed with anything I've tried of there's. I do want an 870, but I wouldn't be shooting Remington ammo out of it. Just me though.

Andybothel, I've shot a lot of Remington ammo before but mostly Core-Lokt rifle and target load shotgun shells and never had a problem. But there was something in this HD +P stuff the LCR did not like! I'm staying away from it for sure. Davidson's gets the credit for the quick replacement for me, although I'm sure Ruger would have supported me in the issue as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzapablo

When researching a used LCR, Ruger customer service sent an email, here is an exerpt:
" The aluminum flame cutting has been sporadic and rare. We have shot a number of them to over 5000 rounds each with 158 grain +P and in every case the flame cutting stops and ends up being only a cosmetic issue. It does not create a strength issue."

Well, I bought that gun. It has a SN of 540-32xxx. Yesterday I shot 40 Winchester 130 grn, FMJ and 30 Speer Gold Dot 53921, 38 + P, 135grn.
Towards the end of the session, I fired from retention, unsupported, using the Speer +P. Right handed, no issue. Left handed, the cylinder opened every round or two, thru 15 rounds. I loaded 5 of the Winchester FMJ and the cylinder remained locked, when fired left hand, unsupported, from retention.

I emailed Ruger, this morning.

Pizzapablo, mine experienced a pretty bad looking "cosmetic issue". Under magnification the cutting in the top strap looked pretty deep for only 15 rounds fired. Even if it is only "cosmetic" who wants their new gun looking damaged? Under the scope the ends of the cylinder were literally melted and you could see melted metal blown back on the sides of the cylinder. To the naked eye it looked like some crud stuck there but under the scope -wow!

Your cylinder opening up is a new one to me. Are you sure when you fire +P left-handed sometimes the recoil isn't causing your grip to activate the cylinder release latch?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcatter

My replacement LCR-22 has a black cylinder as well. Checked Ruger's website, which now lists "Ionbond DiamondBlack" as the finish. The old finish was "Target Grey", which is on my LCR-357. I understand the Ionbond is a coating, while Target Grey is just a surface treatment caused by tumbling the part in a special media.

Springer Precision's website cover's its use on guns pretty well:

IonBond :: Springer Precision

Or the home company's site gets more technical:

Ionbond International *-*PVD, PACVD, PECVD, CVD, DLC, ADLC, thin-film, coatings, hard coatings, protective coatings, Tetrabond, Hardcut

I would just as soon both cylinders had Ruger's brushed finish on bare stainless.

Bearcatter, Thanks for the links to the technical info on this new applied finish. I'm with you - what's wrong with good 'ol brushed SS? Seems like in their effort to make the finish snazzier they're just getting heartburn instead.

pizzapablo · September 26th, 2012, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waveform

Pizzapablo, Your cylinder opening up is a new one to me. Are you sure when you fire +P left-handed sometimes the recoil isn't causing your grip to activate the cylinder release latch?

Hi Waveform,
No, I am not sure of this. It hadn't dawned on me, at the range. When searching the interweb, for similar issues, yesterday, I wondered if maybe my hand somehow bumped the crane latch. I can't imagine how. I have small hands.
But I will deffinately take a hard look at that. It just may be that the the +P caused such an event. Thanks.

Whirlwind06 · September 26th, 2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waveform

What little I know about flame cutting seems related to bullets that are too light, ie. 110 gr in a .357 Mag. In this case the Remington HD were 125 gr. Moreover, the Hornady Critical Defense +P I shot were 110 gr and had obviously less recoil (expected with lighter bullet I suppose) than the Remington and no obvious flash from the cylinder. The standard .38 spec have all been 130 - 138 gr. I am convinced the flame cutting was from the Remington HD. Does anyone know if the .357 version of the LCR has restrictions on how light the bullets can be? My friend's S&W AirLite has "NO LESS THAN 120 GR .357" stamped on the barrel. Just curious. His Airlite also has a tiny metal strap placed in the top strap right where flame cutting would occur. Interesting. I can't find any restrictions on bullet weight for the .38+P LCR.

The lighter the bullet the faster it is getting pushed down the pipe. Flame cutting and all kinds of fun stuff start to happen. It seems you see it more so with light weight .357 but I would think a low grain +p .38 could do the same.
Well, crap: Ammo may hurt my GP100? Help me out.