Ruger Forum

ThreeFiveSeven · August 20th, 2012, 01:19 PM

First of all, I am talking about unloaded... I think it would be crazy to store a loaded revolver cocked...

Will storing the weapon cocked eventually reduce the weight of the main and return springs? Has anyone done this? For how long? Days? Weeks? Months?

I figure the best way to reduce the spring tension is simply to change the springs (easy enough to do). You hear some folks say how modifying spring or a trigger job can increase the likelihood of a lawsuit if you have to use the weapon in self defense. I wonder if reducing the spring tension by storing the gun cocked vs. changing the springs would avoid this...

Mainly just curious...

laidlerj · August 20th, 2012, 01:32 PM

While it may be crazy to store a loaded revolver cocked, it seems pointless to store an empty one that way.

It looks as though this is a question about springs taking a "set", which will happen to any spring stored in anything but its lowest energy state (i.e. not compressed or stretched). Even chrome silicon springs - which are the current best at resisting taking a "set" - will lose strength if stored compressed long enough (although we're probably talking decades in most cases).

If you goal is to end up with a lighter weight mainspring, a faster and more predictable method would be to buy a lighter spring and install it. If you're concerned about lawsuits because you modified your gun, I think this is mostly urban legend stuff. Unless you modify your gun so that it is liable to "go off" when casually handled (i.e. without your finger on the trigger), you won't increase your risk of lawsuit.

Of course, a lawyer can sue you for any reason they think of - the big question is whether they can win. If you put in a lighter mainspring, you've actually reduced the chance of the gun firing in a self-defense situation, which would be a hard thing to "spin" as contributing to a self-defense shooting.

Jim

gwnorth · August 20th, 2012, 01:42 PM

My home defense 1911, when not being shot at the range is always kept cocked and locked. It has been that way for years and its hammer spring shows no sign of change at all. Maybe if I left it that way for a lifetime or two I'd see a change but otherwise I think it would be a pointless experiment.

terry_p · August 20th, 2012, 02:03 PM

First off if you change the spring(s) and lighten the pull some and then shoot someone in SD who is going to know you changed out the springs? It just doesn't add up that "experts" at your local police department will strip down the revolver to test the springs. Many of the newer LEO's these days don't know how to unload a revolver much less field strip it. Put on a new spring and enjoy your GP.

ThreeFiveSeven · August 20th, 2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry_p

Many of the newer LEO's these days don't know how to unload a revolver much less field strip it.

LOL.. That is likely the case!

I have some springs on order, having already honed the action quite nicely. I was just curious is storing it cocked could reduce the weight at all.

Thanks.

JimB120 · August 20th, 2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

I was just curious is storing it cocked could reduce the weight at all.

In a word, no.

Springs do not weaken from being under tension. They weaken from repeatedly being contracted and expanded.

That's why they need to be replaced at certain intervals of use, not periods of time.

Modifications to a firearm as long as the modification is not illegal (i.e. improperly turn a semi-auto into an auto) are no indication of intent to unlawfully use a firearm.

If a DA argued a lightened trigger was an indication of an intent to do harm with a gun, your attorney could equally argue that it was an effort to better control your pistol in order not to endanger anyone.

As with all trials it comes down to who has the better attorney, and unless yours is court appointed it's not likely to be the state.

ExArmy11b · August 23rd, 2012, 04:23 AM

All springs in every revolver are constantly under tension.

I have Ruger Sixes from the early 70's that likely have 10's of thousands of rounds and/or dry fires on them and the springs are just as strong as my newer Rugers.

I also have S&W revolvers as old as the 1920's and the hammer snaps with as much force as S&W's I have that were made in 2007. The springs in the older S&W's are original and no one has been inside the sideplate.

Leaving a GP100 cocked isn't going to affect anything. Like was said, there are countless 1911's that have probably been cocked and locked for decades and they are ready to go, and the trigger pull isn't any lighter.

bwinters · August 23rd, 2012, 05:21 AM

I see not benefit as to keeping the hammer cocked. If you want to lighten the trigger pull dry fire them repeatedly. I have a blackhawk 34 years old and it has a 3 pound pull from shooting thousands of rounds and 100,000 plus dry fire pulls.

pell · August 23rd, 2012, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimB120

In a word, no.

Springs do not weaken from being under tension. They weaken from repeatedly being contracted and expanded ...

+1 on this and a conditional +1 on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExArmy11b

All springs in every revolver are constantly under tension ...

The effects of various sorts of usage on spring tension has been repeatedly discussed in other forums, particularly in the auto forums with respect to magazine springs and recoil spring assemblies (RSAs).

Over @ the Beretta forum, a lot of Nano owners who were trying to get their guns to work reliably were storing them with slides locked open for weeks at a time to reduce the spring weight of the RSA. No luck.

On various auto forums, a lot of folks recommend "loosening" stiff magazines by storing them fully loaded.

The best explanation/advice that I've run across was a post from a "spring guy" with spring design and specification experience. He suggested that springs "wear in" or loosen only in use ... repeated cycles of compression/relaxation over the extent of their travel in use.

The application of his thought to the two examples would be to "loosen" an RSA by repeatedly racking the slide and to "loosen" a stiff magazine by repeatedly loading and unloading the mag to full capacity. I have experience with both: repeatedly racking the slide of a Beretta Nano will loosen the RSA but will not make it a reliable gun, repeatedly loading/unloading a magazine to full capacity will loosen it up.

My experience would suggest that storing your GP100 cocked would do nothing to "lighten" the spring weight.

Ronco · August 25th, 2012, 12:49 PM

I bought a used GP about three or four years ago. It would not reliably strike every primer on factory loaded ammo.

After some consultation with someone I trust, the concensus was the previous owner stored the gun with the hammer back, for a long time.

I ordered some springs and replaced the hammer spring only. After loaning the gun to my brother (he has three boys) he decided they "needed" a .357 too.

It's one my favorite and reliable guns.

For less than $25, you can buy and self install the springs.

ThreeFiveSeven · August 25th, 2012, 08:08 PM

Thanks for the info, folks. I did get a set of Wolf springs. I will switch the hammer for a 12#, and the trigger return for a 10#. The action is already silky smooth, having honed it myself, and dry fired it a bunch of times.

Thanks again. This forum is great!

NewportNewsMike · August 31st, 2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronco

..... the concensus was the previous owner stored the gun with the hammer back, for a long time.

I would think that it would be very rare for a revolver to be stored for any length of time (long or short) with the hammer cocked. Why would you do this?

More than likely, the previous owner had replaced the spring with a lighter than stock spring - too light for reliable operation, it would appear.

Your replacing with a new spring fixed it right up!