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Trigger Pull Help

This is a discussion on Trigger Pull Help within the Ruger Double Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; Ok, shooting double action is quite frustrating. I was shooting the GP100 yesterday at 45 ft using both .38 and .357. When using the .38 ...


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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #1
 
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Trigger Pull Help

Ok, shooting double action is quite frustrating. I was shooting the GP100 yesterday at 45 ft using both .38 and .357.

When using the .38 rounds I could for the most part get a fair grouping, but still have a small problem putting them off to the left. Every now and then I would really get one that flies off the chart, so not sure about that. I usually spend around an hour or two a week just dry firing to get my trigger motion smooth, so I would have hoped to do a little better.

Now when I shoot the .357 rounds I put them WAY off to the left. Thinking that maybe the sights are different for these rounds I started shooting them SA and putting together a nice tight group right in the middle. So I am going to assume that the problem I have with the .38's is getting amplified with the .357's.

Is this a trigger pull issue or do you have any suggestions on how to get this straightened out.

Thanks for the help.



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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:36 AM   #2
 
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From your description that the point of impact is to the left of your point of aim there are one or two possibilities. The first is that rather than pulling the trigger straight back, you are curling your finger on the trigger pulling it to the left. Since you may be anticipating recoil you may also be increasing your grip at the point you expect the revolver going off.

You could also be doing both, pulling the trigger sideways, rather than strait back, and over gripping anticipating recoil.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:13 AM   #3
 
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The extra effort needed when pulling the trigger in double action magnifies errors in technique. Shooting to the left for a right handed shooter is a common problem caused by clenching the entire hand, rather than just working the trigger finger. Pretty hard NOT to flex the hand in double action mode, that's for sure.

You can shoot DA accurately, with a little practice. There will be a tipping point in the lockwork where the hammer no longer moves rearward and is set to fall back forward. On my GP, I can actually hear the lock hit this point. By doing a lot of dry fire practice, I've gotten to the point where I can actually stop the hammer at the tipping point by pausing in pulling the trigger. I then line up the sights and finish the pull. Darn near as good as SA mode, but it takes a lot of practice. It will be slow, at first, but with plenty of practice, you will gain speed and be surprised how this ever so slight pause in the trigger pull cycle can tighten up your groups. Good luck.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:23 AM   #4
 
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Do not practice 'stagging' the trigger as described above. Do practice smooth continuous trigger pulling to fire double action and improve your accuracy.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:26 AM   #5
 
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Replacing springs will help but practice is the only true cure. Accurate double action shooting takes a lot of it from dry firing to actual shooting. And it is normal pulling 357mag rounds more then 38's.

Wonder if it would help to load up both 38 & 357 in cylinder, give it a spin and then shoot?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:32 AM   #6
 
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I must be curling my finger as my trigger is a little heavy and I am using the joint on my index finger to pull the trigger. Although it feels right to me, the target tells another story.

Thanks for the help.....looks like a lot more dry fire drills. I will have to give the balancing quarter drill a go as well.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:52 AM   #7
 
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Jdog: I do a lot of formal handgun instructing. Two more tips -- to avoid pulling the trigger too fast which tends to jerk the gun, or too slow, which hampers a smooth continuous pull (as mentioned above), I say "Moma Mia" as I pull the tripper to set a regular tempo. I can say it fast, but it still keeps me slow enough to keep from adding extraneous movement. Dry-firing will be great practice -- Moma Mia, Moma Mia, Moma Mia.....

I also hold the gun really tight with my strong hand when shooting either light guns or heavier loads -- helps fight against the force of the bullet torquing out of the barrel.

Good luck.

Cordially,

Ash
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt Seavers View Post
Do not practice 'stagging' the trigger as described above. Do practice smooth continuous trigger pulling to fire double action and improve your accuracy.
I have shot with a few shooters who "staged" the trigger and did very well. In saying that, I took advice from my instructor who was a USMC and civilian instructor and national and Texas pistol competitor and Master and practiced a "smooth continuous trigger pull" as stated by Colt Seavers.

From my understanding, to master "staging" requires much more practice and touch. A smooth trigger pull from beginning to end is easier to learn and practice for accuracy. While serving as one of the range officers at the Texas State PPC Matches, I made a point to watch shooters to see what technique they use. I could see on a few "staging" and it was usually at the 50yd line prone when they had more time.

One shooter I use to compete with had a small pencil eraser attached to the back of the trigger guard and he would "stage" the trigger against the eraser and with just a slight bit of additional pressure the shot would break. Cool idea, for completion only.

Quote:
I also hold the gun really tight with my strong hand when shooting either light guns or heavier loads -- helps fight against the force of the bullet torquing out of the barrel.
A good point...over gripping will result in the loss of independent movement of the trigger finger/loss of control. If your knuckles are turning white when attempting to shoot or wood juices leak out of the pistol grip, you are over gripping.

Last edited by RockDoctor; June 19th, 2012 at 09:11 AM.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 09:37 AM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlander View Post
Jdog: I do a lot of formal handgun instructing. Two more tips -- to avoid pulling the trigger too fast which tends to jerk the gun, or too slow, which hampers a smooth continuous pull (as mentioned above), I say "Moma Mia" as I pull the tripper to set a regular tempo. I can say it fast, but it still keeps me slow enough to keep from adding extraneous movement. Dry-firing will be great practice -- Moma Mia, Moma Mia, Moma Mia.....

I also hold the gun really tight with my strong hand when shooting either light guns or heavier loads -- helps fight against the force of the bullet torquing out of the barrel.

Good luck.

Cordially,

Ash

Thanks Ash....awesome tips!
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Old June 19th, 2012, 10:03 AM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockDoctor View Post


over gripping will result in the loss of independent movement of the trigger finger/loss of control. If your knuckles are turning white when attempting to shoot or wood juices leak out of the pistol grip, you are over gripping.
RockDoc: I am not a real strong guy, so my really hard grip is not going to deform any wood grain. I have seen some of my students though hold a gun so tight -- it shakes! That's too hard.

Cordially,

Ash
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Old June 19th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #11
 
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I was taught the "staging" technique by a championship silhouette shooter who could out shoot most shooters using DA when they were shooting SA. I witnessed it on several occasions. He used to take bets on it and never lost, so I know it is accurate.

That said, it is not easy. It does take time and effort and it may not be the best technique for self-defense or action shooting, I'll grant you, but it is accurate if you can master it. My scores are only a little less shooting DA than SA when shooting my GP this way. Your call, but it is a legitimate way to shoot DA, despite what some might say.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 10:55 AM   #12
 
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My point was that one should first practice and master a/the universally accepted proper technique. Only after that should one consider individually accepted techniques.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 11:04 AM   #13
 
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What's the problem with staging the trigger or trying to time the natural movement of the sights to he point of aim close to where the tigger break is expected?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #14
 
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The natural movement of the sights is a combination of factors from arm strength to breathing to improper trigger pull. Proper trigger pull of one smooth continuous motion in combination with proper breathing (even with revolvers/pistols) and practice (helps increase arms strength/endurance) helps negate sight movement.

Staging the trigger is not recommended because of the complete lack of a need to do so (it's superfluous) with the aforementioned steps. Add to that that outside of situations that allow you the time to do so are controlled environments. The real world may not afford you the luxury of worrying if you're at the staging point of the pull when a boar/gangbanger is lunging at you from less than [arbitrary number] yards away.

Can staging the trigger and shooting accurately be achieved? Sure. But as I, and others above have said, in controlled environments (time, distance and no threat of death) and by people that have already mastered or at least are extremely good with proper trigger pull technique.

Smooth continuous trigger pull technique will serve you well in every single endeavor you will ever use your firearm in.

Not so for the staging technique.



Edit/Caveats:

I have been wondering, to those that 'stage' the trigger when shooting dou le action, why bother? Why not just shoot single action?

Also, I have only ever been shown/taught the 'staging' technique when attempting to burst fire fully automatic weapons in the army.

Last edited by Colt Seavers; June 19th, 2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #15
 
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Can't fault your advice, Colt. That is probably a better all around way to shoot DA, but to each their own.
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