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GP100 cylinder rotation smoothness

This is a discussion on GP100 cylinder rotation smoothness within the Ruger Double Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; Hello I have had a Ruger GP100 6" SS for a while and have polished all trigger surfaces and all surfaces of the frame where ...


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Old April 8th, 2017, 05:26 AM   #1
 
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GP100 cylinder rotation smoothness

Hello

I have had a Ruger GP100 6" SS for a while and have polished all trigger surfaces and all surfaces of the frame where parts drag along and installed spring kit. Have also installed shims on both the trigger and the hammer. The trigger itself is very smooth, but the cylinder rotation is causing the trigger to stack or stage or what to call it.

I have seen a lot of discussion and instructions for polishing and smoothing the trigger, but how can I smoothen the cylinder rotation? I have tried with polishing the ratchet but it is not easy to get to the small surfaces of the rachet.

Any ideas on how to smoothen the cylinder rotation so that it does not stack the trigger?



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Old April 8th, 2017, 09:32 AM   #2
 
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The mechanics of the DA process requires that different bits of mechanism "pass-off" their actions to other bits (without getting technical, as Iowegan certainly could better describe). Knowing what little I do about that, I doubt that a perfect action could ever be produced. It's what one is supposed to expect. (I wasn't ever a gunsmith, just a design/manufacturing engineer.) AGI (the online gunsmith school) has a video showing a little of what goes on, using a cutaway revolver. I have the video, but don't know if it is available (for free) online.
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Old April 8th, 2017, 10:00 AM   #3
 
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If you know how to disassemble the crane/cylinder, you can clean the arbor that the cylinder rotates on and the inside of the center bore of the cylinder. I would NOT encourage you to polish those parts. Cleaning and lightly lubricating those parts will go a long way to smoothing up the cylinder rotation.

There are several schools of thought concerning what lubricant to use on the arbor (hollow tube the cylinder rotates on). Heavy grease is clearly a bad idea but after that, you'll get about a dozen different suggestions.

As for attempting to polish the external parts of the cylinder assembly, such as the ratchet, I don't think you'll gain anything there other than increased end play.

The GP-100 crane assembly is intricate but not overly difficult to disassemble. It does require two punches off the appropriate size to depress the plunger and remove the pin that holds the parts in the crane. That is best accomplished on a very clean, well illuminated table. Some people like to work with the parts held inside of a large clear plastic bag to contain the small parts. I've always just used a clean table top and took care not to lose anything. The crane latch consists of some very small springs and plungers. There's also a specialized bit needed to remove the extractor (ratchet) from the cylinder. The nut that secures the extractor has left hand threads BTW.
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Old April 10th, 2017, 08:55 AM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol and Powder View Post
If you know how to disassemble the crane/cylinder, you can clean the arbor that the cylinder rotates on and the inside of the center bore of the cylinder. I would NOT encourage you to polish those parts. Cleaning and lightly lubricating those parts will go a long way to smoothing up the cylinder rotation.

There are several schools of thought concerning what lubricant to use on the arbor (hollow tube the cylinder rotates on). Heavy grease is clearly a bad idea but after that, you'll get about a dozen different suggestions.

As for attempting to polish the external parts of the cylinder assembly, such as the ratchet, I don't think you'll gain anything there other than increased end play.

The GP-100 crane assembly is intricate but not overly difficult to disassemble. It does require two punches off the appropriate size to depress the plunger and remove the pin that holds the parts in the crane. That is best accomplished on a very clean, well illuminated table. Some people like to work with the parts held inside of a large clear plastic bag to contain the small parts. I've always just used a clean table top and took care not to lose anything. The crane latch consists of some very small springs and plungers. There's also a specialized bit needed to remove the extractor (ratchet) from the cylinder. The nut that secures the extractor has left hand threads BTW.
When I spin the cylinder(when it is open) it spins freely, I have cleaned and also lubed the hollow tube(as much of it that is available without taking the cylinderassembly apart). So I don't think it is that the cylinder is not really spinning freely. I think what I feel is the pal(finger) pushing and sliding on the surface of the ratchet when it rotates the cylinder. There is an "knee" on the engagement surface on the ratchet, maybe the trigger hesitates a bit when the pal is moving over this knee-edge? Polishing the engagement surfaces of the racket would not affect the endshake.
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Old April 10th, 2017, 09:58 AM   #5
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The Edge, The cylinder assembly and associated parts are a bit complex so bear with me. I will use Ruger's part names to avoid confusion.

First, most problems with cylinder rotation can be attributed to excessive oil in the center hole of the cylinder. Oil turns gummy after a few weeks but plus it mixes with powder residue that has blown into the center hole. This combination of excessive oil and powder residue can totally bind up a cylinder. So .... the first thing on the list is to remove and field strip the cylinder. This is done by removing the trigger guard assembly then pulling the cylinder assembly and crane out from the front. Once the assembly has been removed, use this photo to take the cylinder assembly apart. Push the plunger in while pushing the latch pin out. Once the pins are removed, the cylinder can be pulled off the crane. Flood the inside hole of the cylinder with powder solvent and let it sit for about 15 minutes. Clean the crane tube, remove all carbon, the blow out the center hole with compressed air.



Apply a drop of oil to the crane tube then wipe off the excess until the tube feels dry. This is plenty of oil. Reassemble the cylinder and crane .... a bit tricky but not that hard. You should notice much easier cylinder rotation, especially when the cylinder is latched in place.
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Old April 10th, 2017, 10:23 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
The Edge, The cylinder assembly and associated parts are a bit complex so bear with me. I will use Ruger's part names to avoid confusion.

First, most problems with cylinder rotation can be attributed to excessive oil in the center hole of the cylinder. Oil turns gummy after a few weeks but plus it mixes with powder residue that has blown into the center hole. This combination of excessive oil and powder residue can totally bind up a cylinder. So .... the first thing on the list is to remove and field strip the cylinder. This is done by removing the trigger guard assembly then pulling the cylinder assembly and crane out from the front. Once the assembly has been removed, use this photo to take the cylinder assembly apart. Push the plunger in while pushing the latch pin out. Once the pins are removed, the cylinder can be pulled off the crane. Flood the inside hole of the cylinder with powder solvent and let it sit for about 15 minutes. Clean the crane tube, remove all carbon, the blow out the center hole with compressed air.



Apply a drop of oil to the crane tube then wipe off the excess until the tube feels dry. This is plenty of oil. Reassemble the cylinder and crane .... a bit tricky but not that hard. You should notice much easier cylinder rotation, especially when the cylinder is latched in place.

Thank you for the detailed explanation of disassambly and cleaning/lubrication of the cylinder assembly.
But my cylinder spins freely, it is not binding or draging in the rotation. So I do not think it needs cleaning/lube. maybe it was wrong of me to title the thread cylinder rotation.
I think it is the process itself of rotating the cylinder that causes the staging in my trigger. When the pawl is pushing on the ratchet to index the cylinder, the tip of the pawl will move across the pawl surface of the ratchet as the cylinder spins, and if this surface is not smooth, this will affect the smoothness of the trigger. I can't see what else it could be because everything else is smooth now. And my trigger is now pretty smooth, so it is not really a problem.It is just that the trigger would have been even better if this staging was not there. When I unlatch the cylinder and puls the trigger there is no staging, buttersmooth all the way. If I try pushing the pawl against the frame when pulling the trigger still no staging. It is when the pawl is pushing on the ratchet the staging appears. So is there a way to smoothen the pawl surfaces? Those surfaces is hard to reach for the normal stoning.
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Old April 10th, 2017, 04:22 PM   #7
 
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The Edge,
Try this with your GP: Remove the grips, mainspring, hammer pivot, and hammer. Replace the grips and pull the trigger a few times. See how the action feels without the mainspring, hammer, and sears. The feeling you describe when pulling the trigger (gun fully assembled), seems like it could be the 'handoff' cycle of the DA sear system. Most full-size Ruger DA revolvers have a distinct 'staging' in the trigger pull after the cylinder locks up and before the hammer falls.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 09:34 AM   #8
 
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Firescout has a point. If the problem is the handoff it can be alleviated or smoothed out.
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