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45 colt. Am I missing something?

This is a discussion on 45 colt. Am I missing something? within the Ruger Double Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; Can I pose a similar/related comparison question? Can someone say how much recoil difference is there between a .44mag and a hot 45Colt? Assuming: Equal ...


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Old March 2nd, 2017, 04:51 AM   #31
 
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Can I pose a similar/related comparison question?

Can someone say how much recoil difference is there between a .44mag and a hot 45Colt?

Assuming:
Equal bullet weight
Equal velocity
Equal barrel length
Equal firearm weight

I expect the .44 to be a little "snappier" and the .45 more of a "push". I think it would depend a lot on the powder used, no?




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Old March 2nd, 2017, 05:33 AM   #32
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixShooter14 View Post
Can I pose a similar/related comparison question?

Can someone say how much recoil difference is there between a .44mag and a hot 45Colt?

Assuming:
Equal bullet weight
Equal velocity
Equal barrel length
Equal firearm weight

I expect the .44 to be a little "snappier" and the .45 more of a "push". I think it would depend a lot on the powder used, no?
In my experience, you cannot really tell the difference. Assuming the same powder was used the muzzle flashes would also be very similar.

You have chosen the four things most affecting "felt recoil" and as long as all are equal, the results will be essentially the same in your hand.

JMHO of course. YMMV

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Old March 2nd, 2017, 05:42 AM   #33
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ale-8(1) View Post
In my experience, you cannot really tell the difference. Assuming the same powder was used the muzzle flashes would also be very similar.

You have chosen the four things most affecting "felt recoil" and as long as all are equal, the results will be essentially the same in your hand.

JMHO of course. YMMV

That's exactly why I chose those things.
They are not caliber specific variables.

The main questions is whether the same powder is used in both rounds. If they use the same powder to achieve the same assumed performance characteristics then it's pretty much a wash. But IF one needs a faster/slower burn to result the same performance then the main difference will be "felt recoil".

Just a thought question as I read about the hot .45s and having never shot them. I've only shot standard .44mag (240grn 1180fps) it's pretty tame recoil-wise. So I was curious if recoil from a hot .45Colt is better/worse or the same as a hot .44mag.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 06:14 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by emay View Post
There is a post about a 45 colt Redhawk that I did not want to hijack so I started my own. Is there something I am missing with the 45 colt? It seems there are cheaper options that do almost the same thing. (45acp and 44 special)And if you want Ruger only 45 colt rounds, the 44 mag does it as well or better and cheaper. I'm not criticizing the round. Wear what ya dig. Heck you guys might even convince me to get one. Just wondering what the hooplah is all about.
You mentioned 3 different calibers, well you can do it all with one. The 45 Colt has been doing the job for 150 years . You can go from mild to wild and if you handload the options are wide ranging. Hey it was good enough for the likes of Wyatt Earp and General Patton who am I to argue.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 06:21 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixShooter14 View Post
Can I pose a similar/related comparison question?

Can someone say how much recoil difference is there between a .44mag and a hot 45Colt?

Assuming:
Equal bullet weight
Equal velocity
Equal barrel length
Equal firearm weight

I expect the .44 to be a little "snappier" and the .45 more of a "push". I think it would depend a lot on the powder used, no?
The one that uses less power will have a slightly lower amount of recoil.

Recoil Calculator
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 06:23 AM   #36
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_p View Post
The one that uses less power will have a slightly lower amount of recoil.

Recoil Calculator
Ahh...so it is more powder qty. related than pressure?
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 06:49 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by talkalot View Post
There's a lot of conflicting information on this forum. I'm not going to argue, but please research the loads that are safe to shoot through your firearm. .45 colt is an OLD black powder cartridge. With modern smokeless powders, you can easily inadvertently make a pipe bomb by shooting something out of standard .45 colt pressure tolerances. Please be careful, and please don't take the opinions you read on this forum as anything other than "something you heard from some guy".


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The only conflicting info is coming from you. 45 Colt has been around a long time but modern 45 Colt ammo is FAR from being 'old'. In every regard it's as modern and effective as relative newcomers like 44mag. Every post on this thread except yours has made the point that properly loaded 45 Colt is about the same as 44mag. I've even given you reputable links to help you but you want to keep on insisting that 45 Colt loaded beyond cowboy loads is somehow dangerous. That's simply not true. Every modern gun is made to safely shoot SAAMI spec'd ammo and all SAAMI spec'd ammo is manufactured to be safe in any modern firearm. No one is advocating shooting +P or Ruger Only loads in an SAA clone but limiting yourself to 800fps loads is ridiculous.

I recommend you heed your own advice and do some research. Again, welcome to the forum and I am glad you chose to join us.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 07:25 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ale-8(1) View Post
In my experience, you cannot really tell the difference. Assuming the same powder was used the muzzle flashes would also be very similar.

You have chosen the four things most affecting "felt recoil" and as long as all are equal, the results will be essentially the same in your hand.

JMHO of course. YMMV

My experience, as well. A heavy 44 mag load vs a heavy 45 Colt Ruger only load - and I do have and shoot both - will both put you well into the uncomfortable zone. Don't go 45 Colt Ruger only loads with any expectation of escaping serious recoil. I prefer to wear a shooting glove with both in my Rugers when I use them.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 07:31 AM   #39
 
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Why .45 Colt? Why not.<no question mark.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 07:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonk View Post
The only conflicting info is coming from you. 45 Colt has been around a long time but modern 45 Colt ammo is FAR from being 'old'. In every regard it's as modern and effective as relative newcomers like 44mag. Every post on this thread except yours has made the point that properly loaded 45 Colt is about the same as 44mag. I've even given you reputable links to help you but you want to keep on insisting that 45 Colt loaded beyond cowboy loads is somehow dangerous. That's simply not true. Every modern gun is made to safely shoot SAAMI spec'd ammo and all SAAMI spec'd ammo is manufactured to be safe in any modern firearm. No one is advocating shooting +P or Ruger Only loads in an SAA clone but limiting yourself to 800fps loads is ridiculous.

I recommend you heed your own advice and do some research. Again, welcome to the forum and I am glad you chose to join us.
Well said.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 07:52 AM   #41
 
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Originally Posted by talkalot View Post
Such a round is significantly more powerful than a standard .45 colt cartridge and would be dangerous to shoot. 300 grain at 1200fps is in the realm of .44 magnum, NOT .45 colt.(1)

"Today's standard factory loads develop around 400 ft·lbf (540 J) of muzzle energy at about 860 ft/s (260 m/s), making it roughly equivalent to modern .45 ACP loads. There are Cowboy Action Shooting loads which develop muzzle velocities of around 750 ft/s (230 m/s). Cartridges of the World(2) states that .45 Colt should never be loaded to more than 800 fps."

I can't post links yet, but wikipedia has entries for the .45 colt, .45 acp, and .44 magnum that support these claims.


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Have you read a Hornady reloading manual in the .45 Colt section(s)?
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 08:13 AM   #42
 
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I agree with several others that besides the 4 factors mentioned one needs to assume same powder. Each powder has a different burning rate and will give different time/pressure curves. This is why some have a snap and some a push. Also, the one article referenced is out of date relative to strength of revolvers as the cylinder on a RH/SRH is longer and larger in diameter than a Blackhawk. The Dan Wesson and Anaconda also have large cylinders. In regards to S&W another reason they cannot run hot .45 Colt loads is the locking notches are right over the cylinder, not offset, creating a thin cylinder wall.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 08:24 AM   #43
 
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I would never get one because on TV I saw a guy standing beside a 1 inch board and a bullet hit the edge of the board and never went thru.
This post was meant as a joke.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 09:40 AM   #44
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Something many people overlook when it comes to comparing a 44 Mag to a 45 Colt .... Standard 45 Colt loads are quite tame .... the factory standard from Winchester and Remington is a 255gr lead bullet at 860 fps, which produces a momentum of 31.3 lb/fs. This load produces a chamber pressure of 14,000 psi. The standard 44 Mag load is a 240gr jacketed bullet with a velocity of 1200~1350 fps, which develops a momentum range of 41.1 ~ 46.3 lb/fs .... a quantum leap from paltry factory 45 Colt loads.

When a 45 Colt is hand loaded to "Ruger T/C only" pressures of 30k psi, you can push a 255gr bullet to 1300 fps, which develops a momentum of 47.4 lb/fs .... well over factory 44 Mag power levels. The missing link is .... 44 Mags can also be safely pushed to much higher velocity. Seems back in 1993, SAAMI lowered the max pressure for 44 Mags from 40,500 psi to the current 36,000 psi. Some companies still load to the older pressure standard, which is still on the SAAMI books. A typical 40.5 k psi load will push a 240gr bullet to 1440 fps, which has a momentum of 49.4 lb/fs.

If you are looking for a winner, it all depends on how much you want to push the envelope for safety and recoil. When either of these high velocity cartridges are used, the terminal effects are nearly identical. I guess you could argue .... barely dead, pretty dead, and way dead .... they all have "dead" in common.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 10:05 AM   #45
 
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Originally Posted by SixShooter14 View Post
Ahh...so it is more powder qty. related than pressure?
That "calculator" is dealing with ejecta weight at a given velocity. The weight of the powder and the weight of the bullet comprise the total ejecta weight.

This is a separate calculation from pressure. The only correlation is that for a given type of powder, more will usually produce higher pressure. The "calculator" ignores the fact that driving a given ejecta weight at a given velocity may require pressure far in excess of safe practices.

In other words, the "calculator" is a tool to predict recoil from a given load, not a way to create a safe load. It's a measuring/predicting device, not a safe recipe.


Last edited by Ale-8(1); March 2nd, 2017 at 10:10 AM.
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