f> Why a .44 Special GP100? - Page 2 - Ruger Forum

Ruger Forum

Why a .44 Special GP100?

This is a discussion on Why a .44 Special GP100? within the Ruger Double Action forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; Sig makes a V-Crown 240 grain JHP in .44 Special and Buffalo Bore makes a plethora of 44 Spl. rounds. The 45 ACP shoots a ...


Go Back   Ruger Forum > Pistol & Revolver Forum > Ruger Double Action

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old January 9th, 2017, 09:57 AM   #16
 
Tater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,064
Tater will become famous soon enoughTater will become famous soon enough
Sig makes a V-Crown 240 grain JHP in .44 Special and Buffalo Bore makes a plethora of 44 Spl. rounds.

The 45 ACP shoots a diminutive 230 grain bullet in comparison.



Tater is offline  
Advertisements
Old January 9th, 2017, 12:37 PM   #17
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 400
Dad45 is on a distinguished road
To the question "why a .44 special GP 100"

I only can say "Why Not"

If one wants something diferent then it's your time to write the Company and if they hear it enough you will probly see it in the future
Good luck in your Quest mine is over

Regards
Dad45
Dad45 is offline  
Old January 9th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #18
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N. Calif
Posts: 2,471
firescout will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad45 View Post
To the question "why a .44 special GP 100"

I only can say "Why Not"

If one wants something diferent then it's your time to write the Company and if they hear it enough you will probly see it in the future
Good luck in your Quest mine is over

Regards
Dad45
Dad "45"? Don't you want a five-shot .45 ACP GP100 now...?
firescout is online now  
 
Old January 9th, 2017, 10:31 PM   #19
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N. Calif
Posts: 2,471
firescout will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater View Post
I think the 44 Special is a fantastic caliber. Comparing it to the 357 Magnum:

1.) subsonic vs. supersonic: might still have hearing after shooting in close quarters.
2.) bigger bullet; 200 vs 126 grain
3.) Elmer Keith

The problem is it isn't a very popular caliber these days.
As to 1.) Not sure if it is a big difference in noise to the shooter.
2.) I shoot mainly 158 gr bullets in my GP100. I think the 'bigger bullet' thing is not the end-all/be-all. A faster bullet is nice, too.
3.) The .44 Special wasn't a big deal, once Elmer Keith got the .44 Magnum...

Yes, it isn't a very popular caliber with the ammunition manufacturers these days. Maybe that will change...
firescout is online now  
Old January 10th, 2017, 02:27 AM   #20
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 400
Dad45 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by firescout View Post
Dad "45"? Don't you want a five-shot .45 ACP GP100 now...?
That may interest me, but I'm kinda a 1911 guy so for 45 acp that's still my go to platform
funny thing is my interests evolve and constantly change, for instance for a while I was all about hunting revolvers then all of a sudden all it was 4" revolvers and so on and so fourth, I still like, use and collect all of the former interests but focus more on whatever is currently on my radar, right now it seems to be more big bore snubbies like this new GP and the Kodiak backpacker and the like

Regarding the "45" I'm a fan of both the acp and the 45 colt hence the name
Dad45 is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 04:32 AM   #21
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,088
Petrol and Powder has a spectacular aura aboutPetrol and Powder has a spectacular aura about
Years ago I played with big bore revolvers and learned a lot in the process.
I gained a great deal of respect for the 44 Special but drifted away from the big bores while my interests went in other directions.
Fast forward to a little more current times and the 44 Special had become all but extinct ! The 44 Mag had just about killed off the 44 Special.

The 38 Special & .357 magnum have managed to co-exist fairly well. Probably somewhat due to the usefulness of the 38 Special in some roles such as snubnose SD guns and target shooting where the .357 may not be as appropriate.

The same didn't hold true for the 44 Special & 44 Mag. The 44 magnum eclipsed the 44 Special. I'll admit that the factory loadings for the 44 Special didn't help but that is due to the limitation imposed by the SAAMI specifications.

When I returned to the 44 caliber scene I couldn't find a DA revolver chambered in 44 Special that didn't require a second mortgage to purchase. ( the Charter Arms was the exception but not really what I was seeking) Ultimately I settled on a S&W Mountain Gun in 44 Mag. I would have purchased a GP-100 in 44 Special had they been available at that time. I probably will buy one in the future if I can find one at the right price.
Petrol and Powder is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 07:03 AM   #22
 
Tater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,064
Tater will become famous soon enoughTater will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by firescout View Post
As to 1.) Not sure if it is a big difference in noise to the shooter.
2.) I shoot mainly 158 gr bullets in my GP100. I think the 'bigger bullet' thing is not the end-all/be-all. A faster bullet is nice, too.
3.) The .44 Special wasn't a big deal, once Elmer Keith got the .44 Magnum...

Yes, it isn't a very popular caliber with the ammunition manufacturers these days. Maybe that will change...
1.) I fully disagree with this opinion. With supersonic ammo, you have the added noise of breaking the sound barrier inches from your face. This is particularly problematic in a closed area.
2.) Tell that to the 45 ACP aficionados. Remember that sonic boom when you are in the ER with your ears bleeding from that "nice" faster bullet.
3.) Perhaps. I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. I was talking about defensive rounds, not hunting rounds. A 44 Magnum isn't what I consider a defensive round.

44's have been around for a long, long time. It has been heralded (or cursed) in folklore and song for 100 years or more. No, it's not the most popular but it's been around the block and it's still here.

From a thread in the S&W forum:

"140db is considered the threshold of pain.

357 mag is 164db
9MM is 158db
45ACP is 157db :::NOTE: I believe this is similar to a 44 Special:::
25ACP is 155db"

And from "speech-language-development-dot-com":

The solution to these problems is the decibel scale. Here's how the decibel scale works. The level at which a sound becomes audible to a young, average, healthy ear is designated as zero decibels (0dB). After that, there's way more math than I'm interested in writing about (you can find it quite easily with a Google search), but you'll be fine as long as you remember a few basic ideas:

1. Every increase of 3 dB is a doubling of the sound pressure level (twice as many micropascals). A sound of 23 dB is twice as much energy as a sound of 20 dB.

2. Every increase of 10 dB is a tenfold increase. A sound of 30 dB is ten times as loud as 20 dB, and 100 times as loud as 10 dB.

3. Conversational speech is at about 60-70 dB; a whisper is around 20 dB

4. The decibel scale is actually a pretty accurate representation of how the human auditory system perceives sound. In reality, a 40 dB sound is 100 times as loud as a 20 dB sound, but it seems twice as loud. Twice as loud as 20 dB is actuallly 23 dB, but it doesn't really seem that way.

So, based on this limited information, it appears to me that the 357 has 4 times the sound pressure level of the 45 ACP, which is analogous to the 44 Special. I feel this is significant.
Tater is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 07:28 AM   #23
 
Rover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,420
Rover is on a distinguished road
I can see the use of a medium/large frame big bore double action revolver. Redhawks and similar guns have their use as hunting revolvers and would be preferred due to 6 rounds vs. 5 and ability to handle stout loads over time. I see the medium frame large bore having utility as an outdoor gun for a backup gun for a long gun hunter or someone that frequents the outdoors in areas where there are 4 legged tooth things such as bears and wants some protection but is not actively hunting game. They knock at least a half pound off the gun weight.

As to protection against 2 legged creatures well there are different opinions or the .45 ACP would not still be around what with 9mm, .38 Super .357 Sig and .40 S&W. Having a choice is nice.
Rover is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 09:53 AM   #24
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N. Calif
Posts: 2,471
firescout will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater View Post
1.) I fully disagree with this opinion. With supersonic ammo, you have the added noise of breaking the sound barrier inches from your face. This is particularly problematic in a closed area.
2.) Tell that to the 45 ACP aficionados. Remember that sonic boom when you are in the ER with your ears bleeding from that "nice" faster bullet.
3.) Perhaps. I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. I was talking about defensive rounds, not hunting rounds. A 44 Magnum isn't what I consider a defensive round.

44's have been around for a long, long time. It has been heralded (or cursed) in folklore and song for 100 years or more. No, it's not the most popular but it's been around the block and it's still here.

From a thread in the S&W forum:

"140db is considered the threshold of pain.

357 mag is 164db
9MM is 158db
45ACP is 157db :::NOTE: I believe this is similar to a 44 Special:::
25ACP is 155db"

And from "speech-language-development-dot-com":

The solution to these problems is the decibel scale. Here's how the decibel scale works. The level at which a sound becomes audible to a young, average, healthy ear is designated as zero decibels (0dB). After that, there's way more math than I'm interested in writing about (you can find it quite easily with a Google search), but you'll be fine as long as you remember a few basic ideas:

1. Every increase of 3 dB is a doubling of the sound pressure level (twice as many micropascals). A sound of 23 dB is twice as much energy as a sound of 20 dB.

2. Every increase of 10 dB is a tenfold increase. A sound of 30 dB is ten times as loud as 20 dB, and 100 times as loud as 10 dB.

3. Conversational speech is at about 60-70 dB; a whisper is around 20 dB

4. The decibel scale is actually a pretty accurate representation of how the human auditory system perceives sound. In reality, a 40 dB sound is 100 times as loud as a 20 dB sound, but it seems twice as loud. Twice as loud as 20 dB is actuallly 23 dB, but it doesn't really seem that way.

So, based on this limited information, it appears to me that the 357 has 4 times the sound pressure level of the 45 ACP, which is analogous to the 44 Special. I feel this is significant.
You state that you "fully disagree with this opinion". Fully disagree with my statement (not opinion) that I'm not sure about something? I also say in my statement "to the shooter". I would think that sound levels would differ based on where the sensing device is placed in relation to the handgun and muzzle direction. The figures you quote are an interesting start, but unless the full details of the exact loads and where the sensor(s) are placed, I find it incomplete. The .40 S&W and .38 Spl should be included in those stats, as they are also popular protection handgun calibers.

On Rugerforum.net, there have been discussions about selection of personal protection handguns based on cartridge sound levels. IIRC, most people don't care about the sound level, as long as the bullet/cartridge performance meets their expectations.

Based on the info you have provided, a .45 ACP revolver would be better than a .44 Special.
firescout is online now  
Old January 10th, 2017, 10:09 AM   #25
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N. Calif
Posts: 2,471
firescout will become famous soon enough
I think where Ruger missed the mark is in relation to the S&W Model 69. The 69 is Magnum capable, even if one 'only' shoots Specials in it. At 37.4 oz, the 4 1/4" barreled 69 is just slightly heavier than the 3" barreled GP44 (36 oz).

The other issue is ammo cost/availability. Most of the shooters I know are not handloaders. Many of the gun shops and sports shops I have been in recently have few (if any) .44 Special loadings, with most being the low-powered lead round nose ammo.

I would find a five-shot medium frame .45 ACP revolver more useful, as the top expanding bullet loadings of the .45 (including +P) seem pretty capable.

I do hope Ruger sells a lot of the GP44 handguns.
firescout is online now  
Old January 10th, 2017, 11:48 AM   #26
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 642
Walkingwolf has a spectacular aura aboutWalkingwolf has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by firescout View Post
I think where Ruger missed the mark is in relation to the S&W Model 69. The 69 is Magnum capable, even if one 'only' shoots Specials in it. At 37.4 oz, the 4 1/4" barreled 69 is just slightly heavier than the 3" barreled GP44 (36 oz).

The other issue is ammo cost/availability. Most of the shooters I know are not handloaders. Many of the gun shops and sports shops I have been in recently have few (if any) .44 Special loadings, with most being the low-powered lead round nose ammo.

I would find a five-shot medium frame .45 ACP revolver more useful, as the top expanding bullet loadings of the .45 (including +P) seem pretty capable.

I do hope Ruger sells a lot of the GP44 handguns.
I am sure Ruger had a reason for making a 44 spl instead of a magnum. One comes to mind is the offset cylinder stop on a 6 shot GP100. S&W is located over the thinnest portion of the cylinder wall in a 6 shot, on a 5 shot it is between the chambers. Same goes for the 686 plus, it benefits from the odd number capacity to make the cylinder stronger.
Walkingwolf is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 01:13 PM   #27
 
Cherno Alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Teh Mutherland
Posts: 130
Cherno Alpha1 is on a distinguished road
I've owned both smiths and Rugers and I've found the whole "built like a tank" mantra is overstated. I think people just regurgitate stuff they read on the internet without actually owning one or the other. Both will eventually have forcing cone erosion as well as flame cutting near the top strap. I was comparing my 629 to my redhawk and the redhawk has a thicker barrel around the cylinder and starts to taper off towards the muzzle where as the 629 has the same barrel thickness through out. There are other differences as well but smiths arent fragile by any means. Both go through cycles of horrendous quality control and both their CS has been great. The 69 is a GREAT little five shot .44 Magnum although I've had issues with it but the ideology and the concept is pretty cool. I hope to see Ruger come out with a .44 magnum gp100 or maybe a .45LC GP100.

Last edited by Cherno Alpha1; January 10th, 2017 at 01:19 PM.
Cherno Alpha1 is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 03:08 AM   #28
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,088
Petrol and Powder has a spectacular aura aboutPetrol and Powder has a spectacular aura about
I'm happy to see the 44 Special chambering. 44 Magnum has its place but the Special is far more useful most of the time.
The 44 Special is a handloaders cartridge and that may be a limitation to sales; hopefully not excessively.
Petrol and Powder is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 03:57 AM   #29
 
Nipperdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: North of Tampa
Posts: 100
Nipperdog is on a distinguished road
I'm sure that the same discussions came up when S&W introduced the 696. People probably questioned it's usefullness compared to modern cartridges. Today those .44special guns are highly sought after and command a ridicules high price when you can find one.
I can see the same thing happening to the GP44 it will remain in production until everyone who wants one buys one and sales of that particular model slack off, and it gets discontinued. If it weren't for the fact that I'm an Old Man with one foot in the grave, I would buy one or two more GP-44s and just keep them NIB. I think that at some future date they too will be valuable Collectors Guns.

BTW Today is Range Day, and I will be shooting my GP-44 for the 1st time.
Nipperdog is offline  
Old January 15th, 2017, 05:21 PM   #30
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Home
Posts: 20
hollywood63 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad45 View Post
To the question "why a .44 special GP 100"

I only can say "Why Not"

If one wants something diferent then it's your time to write the Company and if they hear it enough you will probly see it in the future
Good luck in your Quest mine is over

Regards
Dad45
What he said
hollywood63 is offline  
Reply

  Ruger Forum > Pistol & Revolver Forum > Ruger Double Action


Search tags for this page

44spl song

,

gp100 44 special forum

,

ruger gp100 44 special

,

ruger gp100 44 special 240gr at 1000 fps

,

why not a .44 magnum gp100

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Ruger Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GP100, .38 Special? malan1355 Ruger Double Action 14 January 5th, 2015 08:09 PM
.38 Special GP100 aurora40 Range Reports 5 September 26th, 2014 05:19 PM
New to me GP100 .38 Special plc001 Gun Gallery 19 June 12th, 2014 03:10 PM
New to me GP100 .38 Special plc001 Ruger Double Action 26 April 9th, 2014 01:54 PM
.38 Special Through GP100? RugerNewb Ammo Dump 15 June 3rd, 2013 08:23 PM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List
Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Ruger Forum. All rights reserved.
Ruger Forum is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT.