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Is the American really capable of MOA accuracy?

This is a discussion on Is the American really capable of MOA accuracy? within the Ruger Bolt Action forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; Ruger claims it is and I'm kinda back to thinking about an American in 7mm-08 again. One thing I've noticed about it and Remington's newest ...


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Old May 27th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1
 
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Is the American really capable of MOA accuracy?

Ruger claims it is and I'm kinda back to thinking about an American in 7mm-08 again. One thing I've noticed about it and Remington's newest offering is that they both seem to have borrowed quite a bit from the Savage M10/110. Did they borrow its touted accuracy as well? So I'm interested in finding out if any of you guys are getting MOA accuracy with your American regardless of chambering, except that I expect you guys with .22-250s probably are because I haven't ran across very many rifles from any quality rifle maker where their .22-250 model wouldn't shoot at least MOA. If you are shooting handloads, that's what I'll be doing so feel free to describe your handload. Thanks.




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Old May 27th, 2013, 11:02 PM   #2
 
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You are putting things on pedestal, I fear.
If you can't live without a written accuracy guarantee, then buy a gun with one. Can Ruger sell a rifle this cheap, with that kind of accuracy? Of course they can, and they certainly aren't the first to do it.

I know that savage gets a lot of online praise for their "accuracy".... That praise is from a while ago, and taken out of context. I've been fooling with savages since the bankruptcy years, and I have a really good shooting m10fp. But the fact is, they let A TON of crap leave the factory. Ask MZ5 about his Creedmoor he bought 6-8 months ago. In any case they certainly weren't the first folks to do a nut system for headspace, thank the military for that.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 03:11 AM   #3
 
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I have not actually picked one up yet, still looking for my RAR 243. But I decided to get that particular rifle because of all the reports I've read here, and elsewhere, about it's very good accuracy. Many people are reporting shooting MOA but they are really pacing their shots. So the short answer is yes, it can, and will, shoot MOA but is best suited as a hunting rifle rather than a bench rifle. That is not stopping me from getting it to use primarily as a bench rifle though.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #4
 
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Me and my brother have a 308 & I have developed loads for both. In the case of those rifles, MOA was rather easy to achieve. The newer Ruger barrels are quite good & the V-Block system works. They did very well with match grade bullets, esp. the A-Max, but with Varget & 165 Speer Boat tail, 3 shot groups of under an inch, sometimes under 1/2 inch have been done over and over.

I have a Rem 700 5R Mil Spec that is better of course, but 3 times the cost with better optics on board to boot. pays your money and takes your chances, but for the price range I believe it is your best bet.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:56 AM   #5
 
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Shooters today are spoiled by the excellent accuracy of rifles. As cnc machinery have tightened tolerances what once was an unusually accurate rifle today is common place. When I first started shooting a rifle that held 2 inches at 100 yards was considered a v ery accurate hunting rifle and a keeper today ho hum.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:44 AM   #6
 
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The .30-06 American I had here with a Redfield scope outshot a multi-thousand-dollar dedicated FBI sniper rifle package at 100 yards that I worked with a while back.
Factory ammo in both.

It was one of the most accurate rifles I've ever fired.
MOA? At least.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:59 AM   #7
 
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I have (and shoot regularly) a RAR 30.06. It has easily been shooting MOA with off-the-shelf ammo. For my purposes (hunting) it's close enough for the girls I go with.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 12:12 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkker View Post
You are putting things on pedestal, I fear.
If you can't live without a written accuracy guarantee, then buy a gun with one. Can Ruger sell a rifle this cheap, with that kind of accuracy? Of course they can, and they certainly aren't the first to do it.

I know that savage gets a lot of online praise for their "accuracy".... That praise is from a while ago, and taken out of context. I've been fooling with savages since the bankruptcy years, and I have a really good shooting m10fp. But the fact is, they let A TON of crap leave the factory. Ask MZ5 about his Creedmoor he bought 6-8 months ago. In any case they certainly weren't the first folks to do a nut system for headspace, thank the military for that.
I don't think MOA is a pedestal for quality production rifles, especially with good handloads. My shooting partner has a fairly recent Savage M11 in .308 that easily shoots MOA with handloads. The barrel "nut" is not the only thing that's been copied from Savage. Both the RAR and the new Remington have borrowed from Savage's Accu-Trigger as well. As far as the 6.5mms, I have thought about the 6.5 X 284 but Savage is using the wrong twist rate, IMO, for it and the 6.5 Creedmore at 1 in 8" which is more common to the lower velocity of the 6.5 X 55mm Swede or maybe for the long/heavy .264 bullets used in competition. My interest is in hunting and paper punching at 200 yards with handloads. Both ranges I shoot at are limited to 200 yards. If I went with a 6.5 of the faster variety, 120 gr. bullets would certainly take care of any Texas whitetail.

I believe the American is a very sound rifle and my main concern is will it deliver the goods in what is essentially a "bargain" rifle? Based on the quality of design and manufacturing of my last 2 Ruger purchases, an SR9 and the SR45, I personally believe that Ruger has set a new standard in design/manufacturing that I hope has carried over to the American as well. Based on what you guys are saying, it's not much of a risk to take on a rifle I can buy locally for $355.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K57 View Post
I don't think MOA is a pedestal for quality production rifles, especially with good handloads.

I believe the American is a very sound rifle and my main concern is will it deliver the goods in what is essentially a "bargain" rifle?
That was my point about the guarantee. Also remember no one will warrantee handloaded rifles. The issue is there are too many people who think they have "good" handloads, who blow things up; then get upset at others for their issue. Not meant to be belittling, just browse around at the multitude of posts from people who don't own one manual, and are looking for someone to tell them "a good load for their rifle".

Interesting about your take on the twist rates. Those cartridges were created by long range match shooters, meaning those twists are needed for stabilizing the longest match bullets. So wanting a slower twist for lighter bullets is missing the intent of the chambering, taking them into a even more specific market. Makes it harder to sell large quantities to the masses.
Yes, Mossberg, Marlin, Remington, and Ruger copied the accutrigger concept; which copied Glock :-)

Best wishes with whatever you choose.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #10
 
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Darkker, 1 in 9" is the most common twist for the faster 6.5s which we're not likely to see chambered in the American, anyway, except maybe the .260 Rem. which really doesn't offer much over the old Swede. Compared to hunters the benchrest market will not be generating a lot of sales for Savage and with its twist rate, benchrest is its more practical application, and there are several cartridges that are more popular for that anyway.

As far as the Accu-Trigger, it's not just the hinged safety in the trigger that I was talking about, but the ease for it's owner to adjust trigger pull weight. But since we're somehow talking about Glocks, the safety in trigger has been around for about 100 years. it's kinda like the polymer frame, Glock certainly didn't invent either.

I can speak for all reloaders, but most of the ones I know that are dedicated to the craft aren't likely to blow up anything and notice I said good handloads.

For you guys that are interested, I read a really fine thread on the American that was resurrected at the TheFiringLine started by a guy that really knows his stuff and was reporting on a .243 in particular where the owner was getting some great accuracy right out of the box after essentially just getting it sighted in at 100 (hopefully he cleaned the barrel first) and out to 1000 yards. Most all of the guys that posted on different calibers were very positive in their reviews.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 04:12 AM   #11
 
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My RAR in .308 shoots MOA with factory ammo, Federal Gold Medal Match 168's and handloads.....
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Old May 29th, 2013, 05:45 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkker View Post
You are putting things on pedestal, I fear.
If you can't live without a written accuracy guarantee, then buy a gun with one. Can Ruger sell a rifle this cheap, with that kind of accuracy? Of course they can, and they certainly aren't the first to do it.

I know that savage gets a lot of online praise for their "accuracy".... That praise is from a while ago, and taken out of context. I've been fooling with savages since the bankruptcy years, and I have a really good shooting m10fp. But the fact is, they let A TON of crap leave the factory. Ask MZ5 about his Creedmoor he bought 6-8 months ago. In any case they certainly weren't the first folks to do a nut system for headspace, thank the military for that.
They do turn out some real turds occasionally..... All of the Savages I've had were accurate, but my dad had a .308 that he couldn't get under 2 MOA, and it usually averaged about 2.5 MOA



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkker View Post
That was my point about the guarantee. Also remember no one will warrantee handloaded rifles. The issue is there are too many people who think they have "good" handloads, who blow things up; then get upset at others for their issue. Not meant to be belittling, just browse around at the multitude of posts from people who don't own one manual, and are looking for someone to tell them "a good load for their rifle".
That is all too true. Many people who handload either don't own a reloading manual (or add a few more grains of powder over max load if they do) or they get their loads off the internet where SAAMI may or may not be in consideration. In fact, my now deceased Uncle was one of those "reloaders" who did ridiculous things like throwing 5 extra grains of powder in his 165 gr .30-06 load "to make sure it was up to snuff". LOL, that's why I reccomend against buying rifles from reloaders, because too many of them don't have a clue what they're doing.

Last edited by trigger creep; May 29th, 2013 at 06:00 AM.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 12:09 PM   #13
 
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The trigger, bolt, and mag were the only reasons I didn't keep the one I had here.
Accuracy-wise, I couldn't fault it at all.
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Old May 30th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #14
 
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I have an RAR in .270 Win. I read all the magazine articles about how great the RAR is. Most testing was done with .30-06 version and included 1 & sub MOA data. I originally scoped my RAR with the Weaver KASPA scope that was spoken to in some of the articles. I did shoot some MOA groups with Remington Core Lockt 150 grain bullets. Other factory loads from 130 grain to 150 grain bullets, cheap to expensive did not fair as well. I have shot Hornady 140 & 150 grain SST's in a Remington 700 ADL for about 28 years. Tried these rounds (Moved COL back to Hornady spec) and shot all over the target. Dumped the Weaver KASPA and mounted a Nikon Monarch. Life improved. It has taken some time to get my handloads tweaked for consistent 1 MOA grouping. With my RAR, I have found that factory or handload 130 grain bullets will not stabilize. Shooting well with 150 grain Hornady SST and getting close with the 140's.
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Old May 30th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #15
 
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There is a lot of good handloading info online, and you have to be careful with it the same as using a manual...manuals are not the gospel....I have loads that go above and below what many manuals say...some guns safely take loads over max and some don't...I use info from Hornady, Hodgdon, and many others....lots of good info online.
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