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M77 7-08 giving me fits!

This is a discussion on M77 7-08 giving me fits! within the Ruger Bolt Action forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; Originally Posted by msp3903 Otherwise they will fire 3 rounds and if it's anywhere close will call it within spec and send it back ...distinct ...


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Old January 7th, 2017, 12:14 PM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by msp3903 View Post
Otherwise they will fire 3 rounds and if it's anywhere close will call it within spec and send it back
...distinct possibility.....



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Old January 7th, 2017, 01:41 PM   #32
 
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I know we are talking about different rifles etc BUT I had the same issue with stringing in my RAP 6.5 C. I tried 10 different loads to try to get decent groupings and found that lighter faster was the combination necessary with a short barrel. Also, I lengthened out my jump into the lands to 0.050 and that helped too. Every barrel/caliber/bullet reacts differently but as you can see in the attached pic, lighter faster helped me.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 01:55 PM   #33
 
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I know we are talking about different rifles etc BUT I had the same issue with stringing in my RAP 6.5 C. I tried 10 different loads to try to get decent groupings and found that lighter faster was the combination necessary with a short barrel. Also, I lengthened out my jump into the lands to 0.050 and that helped too. Every barrel/caliber/bullet reacts differently but as you can see in the attached pic, lighter faster helped me.
I actually considered backing the bullet off the lands a little further. But I remember when we first started loading for the rifle, we loaded to standard COL per the Nosler book - 2.80" and it didn't shoot with that either, then we throated and thought using a heavier and longer bullet might be better -and extended that to 2.89" where I'm at now. I really don't want to go lighter than 140's. I've always leaned heavy for caliber on my hunting rounds. I don't really consider 140 HFC. I'm sure 120 would kill a deer, but I'd want to go with Partitions or some bonded premium bullet (probably overkill.)

I might load up a few shorter rounds just for the hell of it.... I'll have to put the scope back on it. I already took it off in disgust
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Old January 8th, 2017, 12:03 PM   #34
 
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I have been down the M77 road you are on three times. I have several M77s that are good shooters, one that is great, but I've had a 22-250, 308 and 223 that I wasted a lot of time, money and tears on.

I would sell it.

The Winchester Extreme Weather is one of the best stainless hunting rifles on the market right now.

The Tikkas are garenteed 1" groups and have to do so before they leave the factory.

Remington's can be good, but I don't love the safety or new triggers.

Savage shoots great, bust since you bought a 77 I assume you wanted a more attractive firearm.

The Winchester Shadow is a good gun, but if you can afford the Extreme Weather you will have a "One and done purchase."
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #35
 
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thanks for the thoughts GSR. I have looked at the Extreme weather model 70. Looks really nice, but I'm not sure what all makes up the $400+ difference. As far as I can tell, it's the same action but with a fluted barrel - which is mostly lipstick and rouge to me - and a Bell and Carlson stock. The stock doesn't mean that much to me either. The barrel might indeed be better, I just don't know much about it. I do know that I don't want to spend $1400 on a tree-stand rifle. I also need another rifle that I'd let my son or a neighbor borrow.

You say the shadow is a good rifle - what more can you tell me about it? Aren't they FN made as well?
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:08 PM   #36
 
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First thing id do is make sure the scope is mounted tight. Those wheeler FAT wrenches are nice for this
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:23 PM   #37
 
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The shadow has a stock that's mostly just plastic. The B&C Stock is a better composite with reinforcement and holds the box magazine well. The recoil pad really eats up the felt recoil. The gun itself has a great feel to it when you shoot it because of the combination of the MOA trigger, composite stock and the decelarator pad. The barrel profile on the Extreme is that of a sporter with the weight (about) of a featherweight and the increased surface area of the flutes increase heat dispersion. The barrel has a nice crown on it.

I think there is more attention to detail on the Extreme Weather and they are available for 1000-1100 on Gunbroker. If you watch you can score one for 900-1000 sometimes.

The extreme weather rifles are so accurate they are almost boring.

The shadow is a nice gun in its own right.

If you go with either Winchester consider Leupold dual dovetail low rings in matte black, the 40 mm bell of a leupold will fit and put your eye in perfect alignment when your face is down on the stock.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:24 PM   #38
 
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First thing id do is make sure the scope is mounted tight. Those wheeler FAT wrenches are nice for this
Thanks Colt, but I'm WAY past that....
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:35 PM   #39
 
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The shadow has a stock that's mostly just plastic. The B&C Stock is a better composite with reinforcement and holds the box magazine well. The recoil pad really eats up the felt recoil. The gun itself has a great feel to it when you shoot it because of the combination of the MOA trigger, composite stock and the decelarator pad. The barrel profile on the Extreme is that of a sporter with the weight (about) of a featherweight and the increased surface area of the flutes increase heat dispersion. The barrel has a nice crown on it.

I think there is more attention to detail on the Extreme Weather and they are available for 1000-1100 on Gunbroker. If you watch you can score one for 900-1000 sometimes.

The extreme weather rifles are so accurate they are almost boring.

The shadow is a nice gun in its own right.

If you go with either Winchester consider Leupold dual dovetail low rings in matte black, the 40 mm bell of a leupold will fit and put your eye in perfect alignment when your face is down on the stock.
Thanks - If I get a shadow, I may restock it myself. I've carried a borrowed earlier version of Win70 SS in .270 as a back-up gun on an elk hunt (trigger failure on my primary.) That stock was no more or less undesirable than the Ruger I have now and from what I can see online, it was about the same stock as what they have now. A B/C stock has little value to me in a 7-08. Might make more difference in 7RUM.

The barrel may be something to consider however. I wouldn't say accuracy is boring. Who was it that said "only accurate rifles are interesting."?

And yes, Savages will shoot, but you wouldn't want your friends to see you handling one.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:37 PM   #40
 
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Just two suggestions. Check the crown. I'm sure you already have but ya never know. Also, a borescope may be in order. You said the rifle was pre-owned. Who knows what the previous owner did to that barrel, coulda run a hard steel rod down it cleaning it or clearing a squib.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 12:16 AM   #41
 
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I have the Winchester predecessor to the Extrene Weather in 30-06, the "All Weather". I don't know if it is still the case, but the "Extreme Weather" had all corrosion resistant parts, fully stainless if you will. The Shadow used to have some components that were more prone to rust.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 05:41 AM   #42
 
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Crown does look ok as far as I can see with rudimentary methods. A scope may reveal something, I'd just have to find somebody with one. I did do some SERIOUS cleaning on it and got more than I expected, though nothing indicated copper. Haven't shot it again since. Maybe will today. I load s up a few shorter rounds and tried some CFE223 for kicks. Who knows...
I was examining everything I could and noticed the bolt seemed to be looser than I feel it should be when in full battery unloaded. It really wiggles around. I loaded a shell and it tightened up but it can still be wiggled with some moderate manipulation on the end. That concerned me. I used a fired brass to check this and could feel it contact the chamber. I then compared the same to my other bolts and they are tight even unloaded. My old mod70 is like a bank vault even empty. I've got an older M77 stainless in 30-06 that is also tight as a frogs butt. I'm thinking this has something to do with my problem. As the chamber chang s due to heating or cooling, the action is changing tolerances and affecting accuracy.
Thoughts?

Also, I found a local guy with a SS Mod7 Remmy. I believe he will allow me to shoot it first. He's asking $500. Good price?
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Old January 10th, 2017, 07:22 AM   #43
 
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Picked up a Winchester FWT 7mm-08 walnut stock, and it also likes the loads at the top of the ladder, but that pencil thin barrel was not made to be an MOA star, easy packing, fast to the shoulder. It will do .750 to 1.25 3 shot groups, depending on the day and me with 140 Nosler BT and Varget. I've only taken three critters with it, one big northern whitetail, big bodied mulie and a lope all were DRT. I like the combo.If it were me I would send it down the road and find another petty girl to dance with, lots of them out there.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 07:56 AM   #44
 
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Just talked to Ruger. They are paying to have it shipped to them. I think I'll give them a shot at addressing the issue/s. Season is almost over here and I've got other rifles to finish the year out. I figure replacements will likely be cheaper later anyway. We'll see what they choose to do, hope for the best. If they say it is all within spec, then so be it. It cost me nothing to find that out and I'll move on. They did emphasize that the main action screw HAD to be torqued to 95"lbs to expect any accuracy from it. I'm going to torque it today and shoot to verify before I ship it. 8ftlbs of torque is not that much and I'm sure I've gotten that or more with hand tightening. Again...we'll see.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 11:08 AM   #45
 
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Don't know if you have, or know anyone who has the latest issue (Feb '17) of Shotgun Sports magazine. Believe it or not, on page 60, contributing editor Ed Clapper touched on what might be part of your accuracy issue. Space does not permit to quote his entire article, but in his article he told of an erratic grouping issue he experienced with a Remington 700 BDL, chambered for 300 Short Action Ultra Mag. The rifle was stainless steel with a synthetic stock. He desired changing from the factory stock to a different type/brand of synthetic stock. After doing so, his accuracy went to hell in a hand basket. He went through all the steps one would or should normally go through attempting to extract max accuracy. All to no avail. What was discovered after some rather high-tech photography, was the wrist of the stock is the weak link due to a flexing issue. He solved his problem by investing in a laminated stock. Don't know if this is beneficial. Erratic groups are frustrating! And yes, scope mount issues are also often the culprit.
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