I am about to acquire my first bolt-action. I do not hunt and I will be shooting at targets 100-200 yards away. I am already quite invested in the .223 cartridge as I have been stocking up on ammo for my Mini-14.
I noticed that Ruger offers both the Gunsite Scout and the Hawkeye in the .223 caliber. My question in two parts:
1. Will .223 be sufficient for my purposes or do I need to start looking at a second rifle caliber in the .308 Winchester?
2. Regardless of the caliber, which is the better buy for shooting at my range, the Gunsite Scout Rifle or the Haweye?
Both are great calibers. I have both. I am more heavily invested in 223 (I also have a Mini). I like 308 for bigger punch and greater range capabilities. I don't know if you have other rifle cartridges, but I'm inclined to encourage you to go with the 30 cal. Personally, I would get the GSR, but either are solid rifles. I like the GSR setup... in stainless, of course!
For what a GSR or Hawkeye costs, you could almost get an American in both calibers. Or better yet two Predators, one in .556 and one in .308. Just a thought.
If all you're going to do is target shoot go for a 223. You'll be able to shoot more rounds with the lighter recoil. It should be good out to about 400 yards.
But then again the bug may bite even harder and you'll want to shoot farther... In that case I'd get a 308.
I have rifles in both calibers. My 223 weighs around 8lbs and doesn't kick at all. My 308 weighs about the same and I definitely feel it when I hold it wrong. If I had to choose one, hands down 308.
Good advice. If you are only going to be shooting targets at 100 to 200 yards, I wouldn't even consider the 308. You will find the .223 far more pleasant on your shoulder as well as your wallet.
It's main purpose will be shooting paper targets. However, how well will the .223 perform against a human target if I were forced to use it in a defensive situation.
As long as your hits are solid they'll be leaving in a body bag. And if you miss the 55gr bullet won't penetrate as much house as a 308. Especially if you have frangible or hollow point bullets.
In looking at YOUR needs, it's a no-brainer ! I have no idea why you would need a 308 for shooting less than 200 yards, short range targets & the energy has no relevance as you will not hunt with it and inside 200 yards it has plenty for human Varmits. The 223 is more economical to shoot with factory ammo but even more so if you load your own.
If you really get into shooting targets you will start shooting further & may hunt or want more long range capability. When that happens get a 308, cross that bridge when you get there.
I too have both and the 308 never leaves the safe! 223 goes with every range trip! And like others stated is much cheaper to shoot! I shoot to 400 and 500 quite a bit with amazing accuracy!
One of my favorite rifles is an M1A 308 but it also gets the least amount of use. I love shooting it but at .80+ per round it can get pricey pretty fast. It also requires a little elbow room to go plinking with a 308. Just punching paper with a 308 isn't very satisfying unless I'm engaged in formal competition. Banging away at a gong several hundred yards away is great fun but that's not always available.
OTOH, I can shoot my Mini-14 or AR's all day long and not feel squeezed by ammo cost. In the Marine Corps we shoot the M16 for requal at 500 yards and in competition at 600 yards. If all you want to do is shoot 100-200 yards the 223 can do everything the 308 can do and for a whole lot less money. As far as lethality goes a 223/5.56 will kill you dead at 500 yards. Inside 200 yards is a no brainer.
Depending on the rifle a 308 can rock you pretty good. My M1A is a pussycat. My GSR bites back. It's not horrible but about 50 rounds is my limit. It's just not fun after that.
Unless you really want reach out and shoot far on a regular basis (500+ yards) a 223 will do everything a 308 can do. Maybe not in full on combat but for plinking, punching paper, home defense and light hunting the 223 will more than suffice.
Go with the more economical solution. I have a .308 GSR in stainless, that i use for hunting and would grab first in a defensive situation. But if i had a .223 i'd grab that for general use(snakes and other varmits). I'm a big guy recoil is not that much of an issue for me, so if i spent the day at the range i'd bring both. But I totally agree with Nomosendero, if your not hunting go .223 and get that .308 if your situation changes. There is a reason most states minimum requirement for big game is .223.
Go with .223. It will do anything needed of it. I took a Coyote with a 62 grain .223 at 421 yards measured last summer. One shot drop. So don't be fooled by people that say a .223 won't do the job if needed.
If you think you will need it for defensive purposes then 308, but you have a mini 14 which is better for that. I would go 556/223 GSR only if you really want a range toy. Otherwise for out of the box target work I would go to a Savage or Remington with a decent scope.
My opinion, For your purpose, stick with the 223. Easier on the wallet and shoulder = more fun. Ive shot over 250 rounds of 223 at a sitting. On a 30 cal, after 25, your feeling it a bit, after 50, the fun is gone, your shoulder is sore, and you're flinching.. If you decide later to get into some serious long range shooting over 400 yards , you can move up to a 30 cal.
As for personal protection at home, if you only have a rifle, then there's no choice. But I wouldn't shoot either in the house. Go buy a cheap 12 gauge pump and stuff it full of buckshot. WAY MORE EFFECTIVE. And you wont be going through 3 walls and hitting a family member, but you WILL blow the perp in 1/2.
My opinion, For your purpose, stick with the 223. Easier on the wallet and shoulder = more fun. Ive shot over 250 rounds of 223 at a sitting. On a 30 cal, after 25, your feeling it a bit, after 50, the fun is gone, your shoulder is sore, and you're flinching.
See! That's where a .308 might be more economical than a .223! I always fire more .223 at one time compared to .308.
It's kinda like when I shoot black powder. My per shot cost may be higher with black powder compared to some smokeless ammo, but I fire far less shots with black powder, which brings my shooting per day costs back down. Same goes for my .308 days.
The .223 is definitely the way to go for putting more rounds downrange for longer practice sessions, though.
First off & then all is very simple your targets? If you aren't hunting & just target shooting just stay with a .223, there are several nice brands of bolt rifles, Ruger, Remington, Marlin, Mossberg, Winchester, Browning , CZ. etc Just because this is the Ruger Forum doesn't mean you have to buy a Ruger. If I bought a Ruger I would either buy Hawkye or a M77 II. I wouldn't be afraid of a nice used rifle either. I have a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle & a Marlin XL7 bolt action .223 not the most expensive rifle but its worked for me. The choice is yours plus if you want to hunt varmints or even deer, don't be afraid to use a .223 if legal. I have killed mule deer with a .223 with no problems.
what gqucool said. CZ makes a 223 bolt action model 527 varmint that's competition grade shooting right out of the box for about $650. I would highly recommend this rifle. It will group better and just flat out-shoot my $850 savage model 10 predator.
223 for your purposes for all the reasons everyone has pointed you toward. As for defensive purposes, why would you not use your mini-14. It would be better than a bolt gun in almost all cases.
Goodkat, IMO based on your facts and requirements there is no good reason to go 308. Stick with the 223 and be happy. Save money, lighter recoil, plenty accurate beyond your desired range, plenty of take down on two legged varmints. I had the same debate and went 308 because of hunting but without hunting 223 is easily the better choice.
As for which gun, for just the range I wouldn't spend the extra on a GSR. In a Ruger I'd likely go for an RAR and focus my money on optics. Assuming you're a RH shooter there are an abundance of other options out there for you. As for the 2 legged varmints stick with your mini.
+1 regarding the CZ 527. I have the American M1 version. Very nice rifle. Slick action. Tests show sub .5moa being typical. Runs around 5lbs too. Set trigger is crazy light. Just touch it..
95yrds with a Lopy VX2 2x7. Shooting relatively fast, 30+yrs old mil spec M193 55gr fmj, with a front rest only.
A .223 will allow you to spot your own shot. You can see your hits or spot the splash of a miss. I switched from .22-250 to the .223 for this very reason while varmint hunting witch really is just shooting reactive targets and have made hits exceeding 500yds.
Both guns would foot the bill very nicely along with many others. I prefer bolt guns however there are also some amazingly accurate ARs in about the same price range. I'm talking 1/2" moa with almost no recoil.
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