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Noob Q - what rail comes with 10/22 TD?

This is a discussion on Noob Q - what rail comes with 10/22 TD? within the Ruger 10/22 Rimfire forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; Hi all - first post here, tho I have been lurking a bit... I have a 10/22 takedown, and got a Simmons scope for it ...


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Old July 16th, 2013, 03:24 PM   #1
 
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Noob Q - what rail comes with 10/22 TD?

Hi all - first post here, tho I have been lurking a bit...

I have a 10/22 takedown, and got a Simmons scope for it (I had hoped it would fit in the bag, but looking like it will not...)

Anyway, the mounts that came with it will not work with the stock rail that comes with the TD, but I am not sure which ones came with the scope and which rail comes with the TD. Does anyone know?

Secondly, and recommendations on QD Scope rings that will work with the factory rail and the Simmons scope? For reference, here is the scope I got: Amazon.com: Simmons .22 Mag TruPlex Reticle Rimfire Riflescope with Rings: Sports & Outdoors

Lastly, any recommendations on a rail that will allow me to also use the sights that came on the rifle?


Thanks for all the help!



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Old July 17th, 2013, 06:58 AM   #2
 
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For the TD you would do well to ditch the factory rail and get Weaver TO-9 or Weaver multi slot rail with Weaver rings...the ones with knurled knobs and a coin slot...the on/off very easy and you also want a low profile...

Some pics of scopes, rings, rails for the 1022...

http://rugerforum.net/optics/

There are lots of TD specific scope/optics threads with pics and products in the OPTICS section of this forum...

Getting scoped TDs to fit in the factory bag is a popular topic around here...

I don't have TD so you do have to look closely at clearances for the TD barrel specifically...

That 32mm scope would fit nice an low on a 1022 with .920 bull barrel using these rings with the TO-9 rail and fit easily using the Weaver Multi-slot rail...

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby...ensionid=11344

These rings will fit that scope easily on a TO-9 rail...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/320...s-matte-medium

This Weaver TO-9 rail has multiple mounting positions fore/aft for setting the eye relief and bell clearances in addition to accepting both 7/8" dovetail and 3/8" dovetail rings...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/147...ger-10-22-to-9

This rail is .1" taller than the TO-9 rail and that's a lot of difference when trying to get as low to the bore as possible without having any clearance problems...it has fore/aft mounting options...it does NOT have as much offset fore/aft as the TO-9 rail but it does have all the cross slots to make it possible to offset the scope on the rail...the TO-9 only has two slots for the rings...the multi-slot rail does NOT accept anything other than Weaver Style 7/8" dovetail rings...the good news is there are tons of options in Weaver-Style 7/8" rings in too many sizes/types/brands to count...the Weaver Brand rails are made correctly and accept any quality made rings they are intended to fit...unlike some of the other brands...especially the factory ones...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/147...ger-10-22-to-9

The factory rail is narrower than a Weaver brand and many, many, many rings won't clamp down on the 7/8" dovetail...some will...the smaller rail on the factory rail people mistakenly think it's 3/8"...people have even been told by Ruger it's 3/8"...it is NOT...it is 11mm...some rings that are made to fit both 3/8" and 11mm by flipping the catch will work...any rings made correctly to fit well on 3/8" grooved receiver will NEVER fit the factory tip off rail...

So while you CAN make the factory rail work...why bother with the cost of a quality rail being under $10...the factory rail is a pita...I have no clue why they couldn't get something so simple right but they can't...and that has been the case for at least 15years...


Bottom line is you have to pay attention to the details regarding your TD barrel regardless of which route you take...check out the TD specific threads or fitting into bag...

--------------

Last edited by ZommyGun; July 17th, 2013 at 07:26 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 07:05 AM   #3
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This is the rail that comes with the 10/22TD.



Combination-Ruger-10_22-Scope-Base-Adapter-Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.

It should work fine for both Weaver and Picatinny.

These are the rings I got for it.

Millett 1 Angle-Loc Detachable Rings Weaver-Style Silver Low

This is the scope I got for it.

Weaver Classic Rimfire Rifle Scope 2.5-7x 28mm Dual-X Reticle Silver

I'm pretty happy with the setup, though I do have to remove the scope by loosening the large nuts on the scope rings to put it in the bag. It seems to keep zero pretty well, though.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 09:15 AM   #4
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ZommyGun, I think you should investigate a bit more before making recommendations. It also helps to have the right gun ... ie TD.

The Simmons rimfire scope comes with 3/8" tipoff mounts that should work fine with the Ruger base that comes with a TD as seen in jlh820's pot. The base will also work for nearly all Weaver style rings. The only rings I have found that don't work well are Weaver Quad-Lock rings and with a little filing on the ring base, they will work too.

stryker70, I suspect you are trying to fit the Simmons rings to the lower part of the Ruger base, which is for Weaver style rings. The top slot in the base is for 3/8" tipoff rings.

With the Ruger base mounted and scope removed, you can use the open sights. If you replace the base, some brands/types are quite a bit thicker and will obstruct the rear sight.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 09:45 AM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
stryker70, I suspect you are trying to fit the Simmons rings to the lower part of the Ruger base, which is for Weaver style rings. The top slot in the base is for 3/8" tipoff rings.
This. My Simmons scope came with tip-off rings and I had to swap for Weaver rings since I didn't have a tip-off style slot on my old Remington. The 10/22 TD rail fits just about everything out there but it's not always the best option to use that rail.

Jeff
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Old July 17th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #6
 
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Noob Q

Thanks for the replies, everyone - the pic that JIH820 posted is what came w/ my TD - the Simmons scope attachments do not seem to want to fit on it well, though - I am doing it on the top rail, but (I think the simmons must have come with tipoff mounts) it does not mount true, and so the scope sits at an angle to the rest of the rifle. I am not sure how you could do it otherwise with this mount, as the tipoff mounts seem to be skewed. Here's a pic of what I am dealing with - note how the scope is offset to the left of the barrel:


am I maybe mounting it wrong, or should I just get the different rail/rings like the TO-9 and maybe this: Amazon.com: UTG Max Strength QD Lever Lock Integral Picatinny Mounting Systems (1-Inch): Sports & Outdoors

Thanks again for the help!
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Old July 17th, 2013, 12:46 PM   #7
 
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image link

http://sdrv.ms/13x7A2Y

is a link to my pic - I can't seem to insert it, and the directions on how to do that for this forum seem to be very outdated/incorrect, as I can't find any of the referenced buttons??

Here's the link I used for the instructions: Ruger Forum - FAQ: Reading and Posting Messages
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Old July 17th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #8
 
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Stryker, Do you need 1" rings or 30mm? I have 10/22 TD. I just got rings off of Amazon for 7.99 that work great on my TD. They have both 1" and 30mm. But the point is they work on the stock Ruger supplied mount rail. I have a thread in the Optics forum.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip1963 View Post
Stryker, Do you need 1" rings or 30mm? I have 10/22 TD. I just got rings off of Amazon for 7.99 that work great on my TD. They have both 1" and 30mm. But the point is they work on the stock Ruger supplied mount rail. I have a thread in the Optics forum.
Can you look up your scope online or do you still have the box it came? Either of these methods will tell you tube size. If it's built for rimfires, it's probably 1".

If you have a set of calipers you can use them to measure your tube diameter.

Or lastly, tell the exact make and model of your scope and I'll figure it out for you.

Edit: I found your scope at Midway and confirmed it has a 1" tube, so yes, you need 1" rings.

You can put both 1" and 30mm rings on that base but you need the 1" rings to fit your scope, not the scope mount.

Last edited by jlh820; July 17th, 2013 at 11:58 PM.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 10:17 AM   #10
 
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thanks!

excellent - thanks! I have ordered the QD rings in my earlier post, and am hoping they work on the rail. If the rail seems to be an issue I will order a different one of those. Getting ready to go shoot it for the first time right now - was hoping to have a scope, but maybe this will make me appreciate it more!

Thank you very much for all the help!

-randy
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Old July 18th, 2013, 01:29 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
ZommyGun, I think you should investigate a bit more before making recommendations. It also helps to have the right gun ... ie TD.
The fact is you are the one not doing the investigating and/or reading the details which are 100% correct and accurate and if the disclaimer that one should double check the details regarding a specific gun that I don't have and clearly stating exactly what does and doesn't work and why is not good enough I guess I'll just have to provide a pictorial account of all the reasons why what I said were absolutely true including the fact that some will work and some won't...your conclusion based on not having investigated all the facts is just plain wrong because as I stated I have rings in both 3/8, 3/8/11mm combos, 7/8 and not just the ones you made work with effort when in fact if you had the much better TO-9 rail you would not have had to modify them...

You failed to read the part where I have that exact same rail that you, jh820 and the next guy have in addition to several others that ARE in fact correct made and WILL work with all of them and WITHOUT modifying the rings or the rails at all...

Again...example 1... Burris z-rings that SHOULD fit the rail shown above but will NEVER work and CANNOT be modified to do so...at least not easily...and certainly not by the average consumer/1022 owner...the factory rail for some unknown reason is NOT the CORRECT width for industry standard properly made and acceptable quality rings...it is undersized...and as you said...your Weaver Brand, Weaver Style, rings that fit perfectly on a good rail had to be modified to fit the undersized...easily proven with calipers if you care to investigate it...Z-rings are precision made, expensive, and not modifiable as they should never be needed to be modified to fit tight, solid...

Again...example 2 is a part that is meant to go on a 3/8 grooved receiver only is in fact 3/8 and is NOT convertible to 11mm...it fits perfectly on not one but two grooved steel receivers...one is on a 22 bolt action from the 1930s...the other is on a new 22 cal air gun receiver...which to my surprise was in fact 3/8 because most of the air gun stuff tends to be 11mm instead...and that particular part will not ever fit on the factory 1022 rail shown above...at least not w/o reducing the 11mm dovetail to 3/8 wide...

The GOOD part the fits and WORKS like it is supposed to only cost $5 right now at midwayusa...

The fact that a guy can in many circumstances get by with what comes from the factory does not negate any of my perfectly applicable parts...

Last fact of the matter... some rings are designed to have a greater clamp range than others...I am going to suggest that they are second rate by design compared to the ones made to fit right on the correct width rail...the fact that some people would prefer that so they can use that factory rail is fine with me...but it doesn't make it good... rings that have reversing clamps and made to center on an 11mm rail are not well centered when you reverse the clamp and tighten them down on a true 3/8 dovetail...they still work...just not as well...

3/8 and 11mm are NOT the same and a true, precision 3/8 will NOT fit onto an 11mm rail...the factory offering is too narrow on the 7/8 portion and is 11mm not 3/8 on the smaller dual purpose rail...the TO-9 for $5 has more options for mounting fore/aft and is accurately made for both 7/8 and 3/8...

These are the facts and this would be the second time you have admonished me for helping a new guy trying to find the right penny-ante parts to use tell me my facts are wrong when they are not wrong...

You do know as you have clearly stated that your Weaver Quad Lock rings did not clamp down on that rail w/o modifying them...too many others have had the same problem to count...I am telling you for a fact that I have three copies of the TO-9 and two copies of the Weaver Multi-slot rail and two sets of Quad lock rings and a set of the Weaver sure grip rings in addition to the Burris Z-rings and a set of multi-fit rings and a sight for 3/8 dovetail and they all fit perfect as they should on the Weaver rails...the ONLY sight/scope/dot that I have fits onto that rail w/o any modifications to the rail or the part is the Bushnell TRS-25 which is a 7/8 weaver cross slot mount with a clamp that has an wide clamping range and it will clamp down on all the 2nd and 3rd rate rails I have used it on...however...it is centered on the 1st rate Weaver rails...it is NOT centered on the 2nd and 3rd rate rails...

Now after reading my first post and my second post if you still want to maintain that I should do more investigating on these parts that I know like the back of my hand then I guess there must be something wrong with my serious lack of communication skills...

Now...would you please tell me why a TD won't accept a TO-9 rail...the fact is I didn't go out and get a TD to do a proper investigation so please let me know...

Otherwise...if there is no reason it won't fit...and it does actually fit fine...then IMO...it's a no brainer that one should...when ordering parts like rings and a scope...get the one the actually fits right, works right, looks better, is lower profile, and has more mounting options, for an additional $5-10 depending on where and when you get it...but that part is just my opinion and people can do whatever they see fit it's all fine with me I just try to help the next guy along just like you...just not as well as you...99.9% of the time anyway...

TIA,
ZG

BTW... don't forget... it was my stupid question to rockdrill that wound up putting you onto the whole adjusting the fixed objective thing...if I were one to keep my mouth shut it wouldn't have come before you and COULD have gone to your grave not knowing about it...so add this news to that...and I'm glad I could start returning some of the many favors you have done me in the past...
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Old July 18th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlh820 View Post
Can you look up your scope online or do you still have the box it came? Either of these methods will tell you tube size. If it's built for rimfires, it's probably 1".

If you have a set of calipers you can use them to measure your tube diameter.

Or lastly, tell the exact make and model of your scope and I'll figure it out for you.

Edit: I found your scope at Midway and confirmed it has a 1" tube, so yes, you need 1" rings.

You can put both 1" and 30mm rings on that base but you need the 1" rings to fit your scope, not the scope mount.
jh820, The brand that worked for me was Bsquare. I am still hoping to find some American made rings that will work. In fact, I am looking for a short length American made scope that will fit the TD.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #13
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ZommyGun, Getting a little snarky?

I will repeat ... you have to do your homework before you jump to conclusions. I just spent an hour in my shop ... digging through my scope goodie box just for you. I must have 18 sets of Weaver style bases for different guns and another dozen sets of Weaver style rings plus six sets of tipoff 22 rings. Most are actual Weaver brand but some are ones that came with different scopes.

Here's where I started ... I measured the width of the Ruger Weaver style base that came with my TD (also measured the ones that came with my old carbine and my new Mannlicher). All measured .825" wide. Next I measured several different Weaver brand bases for a variety of different rifles or pistols. They measured from .825~.830". So ... the bases supplied with a 10/22 are the same as standard Weaver bases. Next I tried fitting unaltered Weaver Quad-Lock rings on several Weaver brand bases ... guess what? They wouldn't tighten on any of them. I had a couple different sets of conventional Weaver brand rings and they would indeed clamp down on the Ruger supplied base and the other Weaver brand bases. Ding, Ding, Ding ... Weaver Quad-Lock rings won't clamp down tighter than .840" ... there's the problem ... it's not the bases, it's the Weaver Quad-Lock Chinese made high precision rings that are out of spec (although I do prefer them to other brands). BTW, the Quad-Locks fit Picatinny bases just fine.

Second test ... I removed the scope from my 10/22 TD then dug out several different brands of Weaver style rings and 2 sets of Weaver brand rings (not quad-Locks, Top Mount and Sure-Grip) and guess what? They all fit the Ruger base perfectly and clamped down securely. Ding, Ding, Ding, the Ruger base is not the problem.

Third test ... I took tipoff rings off four different scopes, all different brands, one of which was a Simmons. All of them fit perfectly on the Ruger supplied base's tipoff slot. Ding, Ding, Ding, it's not a Ruger base problem. Further, some tipoff rings use an angle clamp where the clamp has a defined top and bottom (true for the Simmons rings). If the clamps are upside down ... or worse yet, if one is upside down and the other is on correct, the scope will not mount properly. Looking at the OPs picture, that appears to be his problem. Most of these rings are made to work with either a 22 tipoff (3/8") or a air rifle tipoff, by just selecting the direction of the clamp.

Sometimes companies (people too) mix technologies ... in this case Weaver standards versus Picatinny standards versus "other". Usually Weaver rings will fit a Picatinny base, however Picatinney rings likely won't fit a Weaver base. Why? Picatinny bases are a tad wider and have deeper and wider lock notches that will accommodate Weaver rings. Picatinny rings have a thicker cross bolt and probably won't fit in a Weaver cross slot plus the cross bolt may not tighten enough to clamp down on the more narrow Weaver bases. Then there's the "other" category ... normally cheap Chinese mounts and bases that really don't follow any standard.

For a Kodak moment, I installed a mixture of rings on the Ruger supplied base, mounted on my TD. The Tipoff ring came off a Simmons 3~9x rimfire scope. The other 3 rings are Weaver style, to include one set of Weaver brand Top Mounts, a 30mm set from a Barska scope, and another Weaver style from a Millett 1" Red Dot. As you can see, all of them fit perfect with plenty of room for adjustment.


So ... before you go recommending "ditch the factory rail and get Weaver TO-9", give the Ruger base a try. I guarantee the Simmons tipoff rings will work, provided the clamps are set right. As for Burris ZEE rings, the set I have will fit Picatinny bases but not standard Weaver brand bases, much the same as Quad-Locks. BTW, TO-9 Weaver bases are not standard, they are more like Picatinny.

TDs and all other 10/22s are drilled and tapped the same and have exactly the same contour so any base (including the TO-9) will fit .... but that's not the issue. TDs have a barrel lock ring just in front of the receiver that sits up considerably taller than the barrel. Some combinations of scope bases and mounts won't allow the bell of the objective lens to clear the lock ring without moving the scope forward and losing eye relief. That is not the issue with the OPs Simmons mount ... but it could be with other mounts.

No doubt, the parts you recommended will work and are not that expensive but ..... in this case there is no reason to delay mounting the scope and buying other parts. Hopefully we can all learn a little from our pool of experience ... I know I have ... most recently with the Ruger base and Weaver Quad Lock rings. BTW, here's another Kodak moment showing the modification for Quad Locks so they will fit standard Weaver or Ruger bases. The caliper shows .820" after a few minutes with a file. The ring to the left is an unaltered Quad-Lock with the cross screw removed (necessary when filing the clamp base) and measures .840" ... a 10 minute kitchen table fix.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 08:58 AM   #14
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Here's a better photo that shows where to file. Note the ring on the left. Push the cross bolt out and file where you see the shiny area. The ring body in the lower center is an unaltered Quad-Lock.

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Old July 19th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #15
 
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Dang do I love geeky TD post/threads like this one. So much stinkin fun!
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