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Caseless rifles and ammo.

This is a discussion on Caseless rifles and ammo. within the Rifles forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; Have you guys seen this? Rumor has it that the military will soon be using it. Trials are currently ongoing and looking promising. So much ...


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Old March 10th, 2013, 12:21 PM   #1
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Caseless rifles and ammo.

Have you guys seen this? Rumor has it that the military will soon be using it. Trials are currently ongoing and looking promising.

So much for reloads.

http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?optio...military-rifle






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Old March 10th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #2
 
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There were rumors of, studies on, and magazine articles on caseless ammo twenty years ago. It will be interesting to see if they ever become commercially available.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 12:46 PM   #3
 
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Yes, I have seen that - back in the early '80s!
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Old March 10th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #4
 
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Army friend of mine says there are a certain group that already use it.

That group goes places does their job and leaves leaving now evidence they were there, except for the dead bodies.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #5
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I first saw it on one of the Military Channel shows a few months ago. The rifle they used was different, not a bull pup and not nearly so bulking looking. It was also being considered to the SAW M249, which shoots 5.56. It was said to weigh much less and about 80% of the testers preferred it to the SAW.

This was a belt fed rifle and while it didn't eject any brass, it did eject the connectors from the belt. So, if not leaving a trail is the goal, this rifle didn't meet it.

Here's another article from the Marines.

Caseless ammo could cut 25 lbs. from gear - Marine Corps News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Marine Corps Times


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Old March 10th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan260 View Post
Army friend of mine says there are a certain group that already use it.

That group goes places does their job and leaves leaving now evidence they were there, except for the dead bodies.

That is why I would use a revolver if I ever decided to do something illegal with a gun. No ejected shells to search for and recover.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #7
 
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Very interesting. Looks to have a bit of recoil.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #8
 
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is it water proof?
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Old March 10th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by pcblah View Post
is it water proof?
Bingo! I remember reading about caseless ammo in a Popular Science or Popular Mechanics magazine in the early 80's - maybe before that. Seems like the moisture problem is the weak link in this concept.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #10
 
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Interesting.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlh820 View Post
I first saw it on one of the Military Channel shows a few months ago. The rifle they used was different, not a bull pup and not nearly so bulking looking. It was also being considered to the SAW M249, which shoots 5.56. It was said to weigh much less and about 80% of the testers preferred it to the SAW.

This was a belt fed rifle and while it didn't eject any brass, it did eject the connectors from the belt. So, if not leaving a trail is the goal, this rifle didn't meet it.

Here's another article from the Marines.

Caseless ammo could cut 25 lbs. from gear - Marine Corps News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Marine Corps Times


That's the LSAT. Pretty cool gun, they've put it in a few video games recently. (BF3, BO2)
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Old March 11th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #12
 
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I think there was a caseless .22 made by daisy in the 70's. If I remember it right, you cocked a lever under the forearm, put the round in and raised the lever to close the action. I don't recall what fired the round, and they were not around all that long.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #13
 
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Caseless ammo might be the next big leap in firearms development, but its a long ways off.
One of the big problems with caseless ammo (expecially in full auto applications) is that the actions get really hot really fast.
In cased ammo, the brass absorbs a lot of heat and is ejected from the rifle.
Until someone engineers a way around this problem, caseless ammo is going nowhere.

FN or H&K built a military rifle a decade or two ago with caseless ammo with a triangular profile. It was supposed to be the nextest bestest thing that all militaries would want, but it turned out to be a big flop.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by brimic View Post
Caseless ammo might be the next big leap in firearms development, but its a long ways off.
One of the big problems with caseless ammo (expecially in full auto applications) is that the actions get really hot really fast.
In cased ammo, the brass absorbs a lot of heat and is ejected from the rifle.
Until someone engineers a way around this problem, caseless ammo is going nowhere.

FN or H&K built a military rifle a decade or two ago with caseless ammo with a triangular profile. It was supposed to be the nextest bestest thing that all militaries would want, but it turned out to be a big flop.
Good point. I hadn't thought about heat.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 06:32 AM   #15
 
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I would trust HK with development. The company was working on caseless ammo in the 80s. Witht the end of the cold war and the Peace dividend the miliary halted development.
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