Ruger Forum

RAC55 · September 21st, 2012, 02:00 AM

Jeeze...I thought I was the only one who isn't crazy about the AR platform. With my long arms and ham-hands, the AR never felt comfortable when I shouldered it. For some reason. the gun doesn't line up and feel natural in my shoulder...it's almost like my trying to shoot a youth rifle. The AK points more naturally for me as an assault rifle. I still like the Mini 14 / 30 the best.

Danwin22 · September 21st, 2012, 02:10 AM

I don't have any and have no desire to get one.

I like older blued guns with wooden stocks.

jlh820 · September 21st, 2012, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAC55

Jeeze...I thought I was the only one who isn't crazy about the AR platform. With my long arms and ham-hands, the AR never felt comfortable when I shouldered it. For some reason. the gun doesn't line up and feel natural in my shoulder...it's almost like my trying to shoot a youth rifle. The AK points more naturally for me as an assault rifle. I still like the Mini 14 / 30 the best.

It's one of the few designs where everything is inline with the center bore axis, so it does shoulder somewhat differently. The original stock, I find short as well but most of them today come with adjustable stocks.

But to each his own. I was a convert but I love rhem now. But I like my SCAR 17S better.

tomrkba · September 21st, 2012, 07:41 AM

Quote:

I dont like the AR for a couple of reasons
1. the ARs Blow back systems blows all the garbage into it self and gunks it up too quickly
2. The AR shoots only a .223, if you shoot 5.56 you take the risk of destroying you expensive gun.

1) AR-15 unreliability in a quality gun is overstated.

How many rounds do you need to go between cleanings? Guns from Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, and so forth should be able to go thousands of rounds between cleanings. I personally don't run so many rounds between cleanings unless I am in class.

My BCM got through 1,000 rounds or so before gumming up once. It failed to feed. I opened the chamber, dropped the mag, the weeds fell out with the mag, ran the bolt several times, reinserted the mag, and the gun continued for the rest of the class. I fired another two hundred rounds or so without problems. Overall round count for the class was around 1300. I had no jams in the previous class and I fired nearly 1,600 in two days. The gun is 'proven'. If BCM can make one gun that can do that, then it can make many guns that can do it.

Run with a wet bolt. Clean the chamber with a chamber brush. Use P-Mags and brass cased ammo. If you choose to use steel cased ammo from Wolf, change the buffer spring to the correct weight. You'll have to clean a bit more frequently (I'd do it after every training day). Clean your muzzle device. Lube the bolt properly. Verify the bolt is made properly. If you do all those things, you'll have a good experience.

2) Buy only guns with 5.56x45mm chambers. It's not really that difficult.

3) If you still hate the AR-15, buy a FN SCAR.

Brewster · September 21st, 2012, 08:15 AM

I like all rifles - wood stock with blued or chromed, and black rifles, muzzle loaders etc. Does that make me greedy

I do think the most beautiful rifles on the market are the Ruger number 1's.

Seneca · September 21st, 2012, 11:55 AM

I've honestly given some thought to getting another AR-15, I've owned several of them over the years. Nothing at all wrong with the AR 15...it's a good rifle.

My experience with an AR has been, that it went to the range a few times and then sat in the safe and collect dust until I trade it off...on a mini...

Quite possibly I haven't given the AR platform an adequate chance to win me over...

After reading through this thread, which I though might give me some motivation to get another AR...

I'm still at zero interets in in getting one...I guess I don't get what all the excitement is about...and thats okay...

Lead Slanger · September 21st, 2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpins9

How is something a "money pit" when it is a hobby for enjoyment? It's not like buying an old jalopy auto for 500 bucks and throwing money away fixing it up.

I have the most fun shooting when I'm shooting my AR. It's a shame you have denied yourself that fun based on misconceptions.

As for ownership, I should be able to purchase any rifle/pistol I want as long as I don't hurt someone with it unless it is self defense.

If you don't agree with that, then you are not a supporter of the 2nd Amendment and don't even realize why the Founders put it in the Constitution.

Very true.

brimic · September 21st, 2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Jeeze...I thought I was the only one who isn't crazy about the AR platform. With my long arms and ham-hands, the AR never felt comfortable when I shouldered it. For some reason. the gun doesn't line up and feel natural in my shoulder...it's almost like my trying to shoot a youth rifle.

The funny thing is, that you are right! The AR-15 has great ergonomics except the high sight line lends itself to fitting the human body oddly.
AR-15s, when fired for accuracy cannot be held like a traditional rifle, they are usually canted toward the head for standing and prone and canted away from the head in sitting positions. The high sight line exaggerates the cant needed on the AR-15 to fit the shooter. Take a look at this article about David Tubb (Probably the best highpower shooter who ever lived) and note his cant. http://www.zediker.com/articles/dt_sitting.pdf

For use a defensive rifle, just give it a 50 yard zero and its going to be close enough.

KKBMTGG/go army · September 21st, 2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowegan

scooter.maclusky, There's no set amount ... much depends on how dirty the powder burns but more importantly, how the rifle is maintained and even climate conditions. Starting with a dry action is much better because oil will attract powder residue and gum up faster. I've seen some ARs fail to go to full battery on the first magazine and others like yours may go a lot lot longer but sooner or later, they will build up enough powder residue and malfunction.

Back when I had my shop, hardly a week went by without an AR coming in with malfunction problems. In nearly all cases, the only problem was a filthy receiver where the owner used too much oil. Funny ... when ARs start jamming ... hosing the bolt down with oil will put them back in service ... at least for a little while, then they will gum up again.

A couple years ago, I went prairie doggin' with two friends in western Nebraska. One guy brought his fairly new Colt HBar and started having malfunctions after 30 or 40 rounds. Between tinkering with the rifle and having to tear it down for cleaning several times ... he was about ready to throw it at the prairie dogs. He was shooting factory R-P ammo. Not the best but far from the worst. I was shooting my Rem 700 bolt gun (223 Rem reloads) and my other friend was shooting a Ruger Mini-14 Target Model, also with R-P factory ammo. I don't think either of us had a single malfunction and we shot a huge amount of ammo.

Ask anyone that served in Viet Nam ... very humid conditions, poor cleaning techniques ... frequent malfunctions. Not a gun I would choose if I was in a fire fight ... but then how likely is that? For just a fun gun with tons of aftermarket support, I can see why they are so popular. However if I ever take the plunge for an AR, it will have an external gas piston like the Ruger SR-556. YMMV.

Well you're right about one thing, My mileage does indeed vary. I won't bother getting into the Colt jamming after a magazine silliness...I repect your opinion and skillset so I'll believe you but I'd be willing to bet there's other problems there besides a little carbon. This nonsense of the Stoner system being unreliable is just that, nonsense. Frankly, it's quite difficult to jam up an AR with just powder fowling oily or not. In a muddy environment it is vastly more reliable than the Garand,M 14 or Mini 14. Try crawling through a muddy jungle floor with an M 14 and you'll find yourself with a single shot rifle real quick. As you said, ask anyone who served in Nam, they'll tell ya....They'll also tell you that after 68 we had no problems with the Stoner. Imagine that, you clean a combat rifle every now and then and they work very well.

kingpins9 · September 21st, 2012, 04:11 PM

The AR-15 jamming problem in Vietnam was directly related to the Army. Stoner warned the Army and they went and did their own thing.

"The root cause of the stoppages turned out to be a problem with the powder for the ammunition. In 1964 when the Army was informed that DuPont could not mass-produce the nitrocellulose-based powder to the specifications demanded by the M16, the Olin Mathieson Company provided a high-performance ball propellant of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. While the Olin WC 846 powder was capable of firing an M16 5.56 mm round at the desired 3,300 ft (1,000 m) per second, it had the unintended consequence of increasing the automatic rate of fire from 850 to 1000 rounds per minute. This would leave behind dirty residue, making the M16 more likely to have a stoppage. The problem was resolved by fitting the M16 with a buffer system, slowing the rate of fire back down to 650 to 850 rounds per minute and outfitting all newly produced M16s with an anti corrosive chrome-plated chamber."

KKBMTGG/go army · September 21st, 2012, 04:18 PM

That's it, you can add McNamera as part of the problem too.
Use the proper powder, chrome the bore and voila!!

jlh820 · September 21st, 2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKBMTGG/go army

That's it, you can add McNamera as part of the problem too.
Use the proper powder, chrome the bore and voila!!

Finally issuing cleaning kits helped, too!

They didn't come with one when first introduced and they were told they don't need to be cleaned. WRONG!

As was said the Army FUBAR'd it by rushing the M16 into production before everything was in place, including support... like ammo and stuff. Little things.

Tacky · September 22nd, 2012, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Slanger

I'm not a fan of them either and don't want one, but totally disagree with you on not being able to own one. Here's my reason. They are no different than any other semi auto rifle other than the round count. I don't understand why people keep saying that civillians shouldn't be able to own them???

I agree with you as well,( other than being an owner of several Ar's) if I am a law abiding citizen, which I am I should be able to buy anything I please, no exceptions. I feel its my god given right, and should be a reward for my non criminal beliefs, and actions. If I were a criminal I shouldn't be able to buy a stick of gum. I feel criminals forfieted all their rights and rewards of firearm ownership when they commited their first crime. After all a gun is a gun( a tool no different than a tractor or axe) and the person is the one that operates it for good or bad, its not the guns choice. Also whats the difference between a revolver and AR or any other gun for that matter, a gun is a gun, no matter how big or small, or how many bullets it holds they are all capable of the same results, good or bad.

In addition to the jamming issues that have been numerously stated I have fired probably 20K rounds through my Ar's in the past years. Only stoppage I have ever had was once I had a primer back out of a fired casing( factory federal gold medal match bthp) and fall into the trigger assembly and stop the rifle. Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you I always say. If its a DI gun keep the bolt wet, chamber face clean, use good mags, and ammo, and drive on driver.

Seneca · September 22nd, 2012, 08:11 AM

AR's are here to stay no doubt about that...I certainly support anyones desire to own one...like I said they are a good rifle...

Yet, they aren't everybody's cup o' tea nor are they a gotta have rifle. I know for a fact that if you give me an AR and a mini, the mini will go to the range more often than the AR would...

It may be hard for those who thinks the AR is the apex (top) rifle for the .223/5.56 cartridge to understand, that there are those, like myself who recognize they are a good rifle and yet see nothing in particular about them that makes them desireable to own...

VietVet68 · September 24th, 2012, 09:07 AM

I think the "wannabee" factor is partially responsible for people buying them. They watch the movies, TV shows & play the video games using it to inflict shock & awe.