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Ready for my first evil black rifle

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Old January 8th, 2017, 09:34 AM   #1
 
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Ready for my first evil black rifle

So I am getting ready to buy a modern sporting rifle to go along with my very traditional arsenal. I am very very divided over what to get. So called "assault rifles" that I have never particularly liked are not my specialty, but I have come around and I want one. And soon, once I get the last $400 put aside I'll have $1000 for this venture. So that's my budget and I have ZERO problem using open sights. But I want some opinions on what to get, here's what I am looking for:

1. Something capable of hunting deer and hogs.

2. Something that is a good blend of reliability and accuracy. Need to be able to hunt deer and hogs,

3. Something not insanely expensive, but of quality. Best case scenario in the $800 range.

So what I am interested in is something like the Ruger Mini-Tactical in .300 AAC Blk. It seems to fit my criteria and I hear the accuracy is much better recently. I see a lot of good hunting loads in the 125-165 grain range for hunting and plenty of quiet sub-sonic loads.

So that's just an idea... What do you guys think? If I waited till say April I could have $1600. If there is a reason to wait I will if it gets me what I am looking for.




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Old January 8th, 2017, 09:51 AM   #2
 
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You might try an ar-15 in 25 sharps or 6.8 spc. I would not hesitate to hunt with those two rounds.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 09:55 AM   #3
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I would go with an actual Ar-15 in 6.5 Grendel. If you aren't afraid to build one you can do it for less than a grand
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:06 AM   #4
 
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I really like American made AK's built to the Motherlands specifications. Not overly impressed with the AR platform in any caliber. The charging handle on the AR's feel like pulling a bow, which makes the setup pretty awkward each time you have to charge the handle and load one in the chamber. With the AK you can grip and rip with the charging handle on the side and no forward assist non sense.. The AK's rear ramp sight is pretty impressive and I've found that American built ones are more accurate than any AR I've ever shot. And I'm talking about American made ones with tight tolerances. The 7.62 x 39 has the power of a weaker 30-30 but is capable of taking deer and hogs.

The century arms AK really cant be beat for 600$ if you intend to just use Iron sights.

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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emay View Post
You might try an ar-15 in 25 sharps or 6.8 spc. I would not hesitate to hunt with those two rounds.
Absolutely, I own both. The .25-45 sharps is a great rifle. It uses 5.56 brass upsized to .257. It has between 10% and 15% more energy than the 7.62x39, and 30% to 40% more than a 5.56. It has the same velocity as the 5.56 in a 20" barrel, comparing the 20" 25-45 sharps. Its perfectly capable for deer and hogs. It totally trumps the 300bo. Only thing different with the sharps is the barrel, flashider, and ammo, all other parts are the same as the 5.56, mags, bolts, handguards, etc. I own one, and I am building a second. Here is mine.





If you reload, their are also many options for bullets in .257 from 60 grain to 100 grain, and 5.56 brass is easy to convert. I liked its capability more so than the 300BO. Below included the link to their website.

As for the other calibers like 6.8spc and 6.5 grendel they both would be great hunting rounds. Biggest difference is the cost of ammo, barrel and they use somewhat different parts than the 5.56.

They have different mags, bolts, barrels etc. However they are highly effective. The 6.8spc uses a .277 bullet same as the 270 win. It has twice the energy of a 5.56 at the same ranges. The 6.5 grendel is using a .264 bullet, and is capable of out ranging the 5.56 and 6.8spc due to its better ballistic coefficient. I own one of each of these as well. Both would be suited well for hunting deer or hog.

Here is sharps website.

Sharps Rifle Company (SRC) Online Store offers best AR15/M4 Rifle and Accessories: bolt, bolt carrier, barrel, uppers, lowers, 25-45 Sharps ammo, cartridge
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:09 AM   #6
 
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I would give the Mini-14 a miss.

Instead I would look at an AR 15.

223 is not the most powerful choice for hunting, but with the right bullets you can easily do deer, antelope, and pigs. Ammo is cheap, practice makes perfect, you can expect about 1" guns for less than $1000 spent. They are addicting and like Legos. You can add a different caliber by buying an upper and swap in less than 30 seconds. --- no mini can do that.

The more exotic rounds, 6.8's, 6.5's, 25's, etc are more expensive and a little more finicky. If you go this route expect to pay more, but you will have a more powerful hunting weapon. However it may be too expensive to just shoot.

7.62x39 ARs can be picky, but if you get on that runs well you have a semi auto 30-30 equivalent that is inexpensive and can shoot 154 grain expanding bullets.

For $650 you can get one in 223/5.56 that will easily outshoot a mini 14, if you spend $800-$950 you can get one from a manufacturer that garentees 3/4" groups. They can change configuration to suit your need for the day.


Consider an M1A. Proven design, heavy, but very soft recoiling and it shoots 308/7.62x51 that cartridge can take anything in North America. This is pricey, but it will be a solid gun with great support and a classic.


Consider a DPMS GII AR10 in 308. They took the heavy oversized AR10 and basically shrunk it down to AR 15 size, reduced the recoil impulse and it still shoots 308/7.62x51. Performance of a M1A, handling and features of an AR15.

Last edited by GSR Fan; January 8th, 2017 at 10:13 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:13 AM   #7
 
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Alright, the OP is not an "assault rifle" kind of guy, likes traditional weapons, and mentions more than once the importance of being effective in the hunting fields. The .300AAC Blackout, while an interesting round, is not what I would choose for a deer and hog gun. Limited range would be my biggest issue. I have an alternative in mind that I have seen work firsthand. It is modern, traditional, tactical, and an effective hunting rifle all at the same time. I'm talking about FN's FNAR in .308Win, a modern take on the BAR w/ polymer furniture, rails, and hi-cap mags. The one I shot was accurate and reliable. The guy who brought it killed three of my deer in two days...I haven't invited him back. But the rifle is awesome. A compact, low-power variable optic makes this a versatile package. Price would make it an April acquisition,but the performance will be worth it. Have fun choosing!
FNH USA FNAR .308 Win Semiautomatic Rifle | Academy
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:13 AM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR Fan View Post
I would give the Mini-14 a miss.

Instead I would look at an AR 15.

223 is not the most powerful choice for hunting, but with the right bullets you can easily do deer, antelope, and pigs. Ammo is cheap, practice makes perfect, you can expect about 1" guns for less than $1000 spent. They are addicting and like Legos. You can add a different caliber by buying an upper and swap in less than 30 seconds. --- no mini can do that.

The more exotic rounds, 6.8's, 6.5's, 25's, etc are more expensive and a little more finicky. If you go this route expect to pay more, but you will have a more powerful hunting weapon. However it may be too expensive to just shoot.

7.62x39 ARs can be picky, but if you get on that runs well you have a semi auto 30-30 equivalent that is inexpensive and can shoot 154 grain expanding bullets.

For $650 you can get one that will easily outshoot a mini 14, if you spend $800-$950 you can get one from a manufacturer that garentees 3/4" groups. They can change configuration to suit your need for the day.


Consider an M1A. Proven design, heavy, but very soft recoiling and it shoots 308/7.62x51 that cartridge can take anything in North America. This is pricey, but it will be a solid gun with great support and a classic.


Consider a DPMS GII AR10 in 308. They took the heavy oversized AR10 and basically shrunk it down to AR 15 size, reduced the recoil impulse and it still shoots 308/7.62x51. Performance of a M1A, handling and features of an AR15.
Yeah I forgot about the M1A. Would definitely look at an M1A before looking at anything AR.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:19 AM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR Fan View Post
I would give the Mini-14 a miss.

Instead I would look at an AR 15.

223 is not the most powerful choice for hunting, but with the right bullets you can easily do deer, antelope, and pigs. Ammo is cheap, practice makes perfect, you can expect about 1" guns for less than $1000 spent. They are addicting and like Legos. You can add a different caliber by buying an upper and swap in less than 30 seconds. --- no mini can do that.

The more exotic rounds, 6.8's, 6.5's, 25's, etc are more expensive and a little more finicky. If you go this route expect to pay more, but you will have a more powerful hunting weapon. However it may be too expensive to just shoot.

7.62x39 ARs can be picky, but if you get on that runs well you have a semi auto 30-30 equivalent that is inexpensive and can shoot 154 grain expanding bullets.

For $650 you can get one in 223/5.56 that will easily outshoot a mini 14, if you spend $800-$950 you can get one from a manufacturer that garentees 3/4" groups. They can change configuration to suit your need for the day.


Consider an M1A. Proven design, heavy, but very soft recoiling and it shoots 308/7.62x51 that cartridge can take anything in North America. This is pricey, but it will be a solid gun with great support and a classic.


Consider a DPMS GII AR10 in 308. They took the heavy oversized AR10 and basically shrunk it down to AR 15 size, reduced the recoil impulse and it still shoots 308/7.62x51. Performance of a M1A, handling and features of an AR15.

Heres what I've noticed with an American made AK's built to the Motherlands specs:

The tolerances are much tighter than the exports from years ago and as such its very accurate but does occasionally (and I mean occasionally) jam like an AR but with an AK I don't have to deal with any forward assist silliness, no inferior charging handle design, and the rear adjustable ramp sight that can be adjusted at 100 meters (100 meters is accurate at 50 meters as well) up to 800 meters can't be beat if you intend to use it with open/iron sights. The rifle can be found pretty cheap as well.

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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:20 AM   #10
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M1a is great, but can cost between $1100 to well over 3k depending on how you pick your poison. I own 2 of these, very fine rifles but pricey. Another option could be the dpms lr308 oracle in 308 win. A great entry rifle, ultra reliable and can be had for $750 to $850, far cheaper than the m1a but same power, and boat loads of upgradeable parts. Their are guys shooting the 16" carbines out to 800 yards. I own a few lr308's as well in 308, 243, and 6.5 creedmoor.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:26 AM   #11
 
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Great responses!!! I definitely need some guidance and I am researching all of your recommendations. Keep 'em coming!
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #12
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Get one in 308 with a 20 inch barrel. maybe not even in an AR platform.

The 308 will fit your bill perfectly.

An AR carbine in 223 is pretty useless in that regard IMO.

Underpowered with too light a bullet, and not the best accuracy in 16 inch.. NO WAY Id use a 223 / 16 inch barrel for hogs and deer. My nephew has used 223 in a 20 inch bolt action with 60 grain bullets for deer for 4 years. The first two deer, he dropped the both in one very well placed shot. BOTH deer dropped in their tracks and didnt move. When we walked down there, BOTH jumped up and ran off. He has shot two more, that dropped them in their tracks, but he shot BOTH again immediately while they layed there. That is NOT necessary with a 308.

Yes, a 223 can take deer with precision shots, but hogs are tough as hell and dangerous. Unless I could head shoot a hog, no way Id use a 223.

The 308 is also one of the most produced bullets in the world. It comes in just about every size, grain, load you can imagine. Ive also seen 223 ammo shortages, but have not seen 308 ammo shortages.
Our M16's with 20 inch barrels were very accurate to 400 meters,, the 308 can easily double that to 800 meters.

Dont take a knife to a gun fight. Get the 308. It can do both with ease.

I know there are those that dont agree with my opinion on it,, but there's my 2 cents.

Good luck.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #13
 
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So there's a consenus I need something in the 6.5 Grendel or .308 power range.... I agree. The Sharps I will take a closer look at I am indeed a reloader.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:46 AM   #14
 
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But let's up the ante and say I have $1200 to get set up... that's it. What rifle?
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:47 AM   #15
 
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BTW the 7.62x39 is still in the running
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