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.223 rem to 5.56 Nato

This is a discussion on .223 rem to 5.56 Nato within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Just purchased a new Ruger American compact in .223 Rem. The folks at Ruger have told us that bolt guns are caliber specific. .223 rem ...


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Old January 18th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #1
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.223 rem to 5.56 Nato

Just purchased a new Ruger American compact in .223 Rem. The folks at Ruger have told us that bolt guns are caliber specific. .223 rem bolt guns can only use .223 rem ammo. Semi autos are chambered for 5.56 and can use either. Others have told me that this is due to the 5.56 having a greater lead than the .223. I believe this is a technical term for the neck length. With a longer neck length I can see where over pressure situations could arise.
My main questions are can I just trim the 5.56 cases to .223 length and take advantage of all the military cases? Second question is ; can the bolt gun chamber be lengthened to 5.56 dimensions without losing accuracy?



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Old January 18th, 2014, 05:18 PM   #2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunman5646 View Post
Just purchased a new Ruger American compact in .223 Rem. The folks at Ruger have told us that bolt guns are caliber specific. .223 rem bolt guns can only use .223 rem ammo. Semi autos are chambered for 5.56 and can use either. Others have told me that this is due to the 5.56 having a greater lead than the .223. I believe this is a technical term for the neck length. With a longer neck length I can see where over pressure situations could arise.
My main questions are can I just trim the 5.56 cases to .223 length and take advantage of all the military cases? Second question is ; can the bolt gun chamber be lengthened to 5.56 dimensions without losing accuracy?
Freakingstang's response in the other thread is the correct one. Go buy a reloading book.

The brass is the same size.

Next, google "leade"
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Old January 18th, 2014, 05:40 PM   #3
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Old January 18th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #4
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I've got 30 or 40 reloading manuals and none explain this. I do under stand from the drawing though. So we're talking about free bore and COAL. The brass is the same dimensionally, but bullet seating dimensions are different. The ogive will enter into this as well, I take it. None of my manuals even have data listed for the Nato round, just the .223 Rem. It seems I'll just reload these cases to .223 rem. data and avoid any military ammo.

Last edited by gunman5646; January 18th, 2014 at 08:44 PM. Reason: already knew
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Old January 18th, 2014, 09:21 PM   #5
 
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Hornadys manual discusses leade very well and has .223, Service rifle and 5.56 recipes.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 02:34 AM   #6
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yes, go grab the hornady 9th edition.. it explains it well, has separate data for 223, service rifle and 5.56.

you can have a chamber opened up to 5.56 specs, but it will diminish accuracy some. There are some other chambered in Wylde that is a mix between the two. it it looser than 223, but tighter than 5.56. it allows you to use both cartridges and still remain accurate.

Last edited by Freakingstang; January 19th, 2014 at 02:38 AM.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 05:59 AM   #7
 
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This. v_v

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakingstang View Post

you can have a chamber opened up to 5.56 specs, but it will diminish accuracy some. There are some other chambered in Wylde that is a mix between the two. it it looser than 223, but tighter than 5.56. it allows you to use both cartridges and still remain accurate.

If you really expect to shoot 5.56 in it, have a 'smith fun a Wylde reamer in it.

Rock River uses Wylde's on many of their AR's, this is from their website:

"The .223 Wylde chamber was designed as a match chambering for semi-automatic rifles. It will accomodate both .223 Rem and 5.56mm NATO ammunition. It is relieved in the case body to aid in extraction and features a shorter throat for improved accuracy."
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Old January 19th, 2014, 08:49 AM   #8
 
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Load Data Accurate Powders There is separate data listed for the 223 & 5.56 cartridge. More info at this 2nd link. Note that Sierra data is different by action type, bolt vs auto. http://www.6mmbr.com/223rem.html SAAMI has a warning to not use 5.56 nato factory ammo in a 223 chamber.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:27 AM   #9
 
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Have a smith cut you a wilde chamber. My AR Bushmaster has the Wilde and it will group 1/2" at 100yds. But if you don't shoot milsupr ammo or 5.56 spec ammo then why worry. The cases are the same including the neck, its the leade that is different. You can load mil cases to 223 levels no problem. You just have to back off the charge due to reduced case volume. Any good manual covers this topic well, as noted above.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 09:58 AM   #10
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The main things I have gotten from this discussion are; that I can use(with a slight reduction in charge) 5.56 brass for reloading the .223 rem, unless I have my chamber modified I shouldn't shoot surplus military ammo, if I do have the chamber modified I will experience a slight reduction in accuracy.
Thanks for the education fellas. I believe I'll look into some updated manuals that are more jacketed bullet orientated.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 10:35 AM   #11
 
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Please bear with me, as I am fairly new to rifles. I'm a little confused now. Everyone is saying the wilde chamber is for semi-auto's, so how does Savage make the chamber on their Axis bolt action rifles so it chambers both 5.56/.223 & still be accurate? And, does any one know why Ruger could not? Is it that much more expensive?

Last edited by moakes58; January 19th, 2014 at 10:59 AM.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 11:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moakes58 View Post
Please bear with me, as I am fairly new to rifles. I'm a little confused now. Everyone is saying the wilde chamber is for semi-auto's, so how does Savage make the chamber on their Axis rifles so it chambers both 5.56/.223 & still be accurate? And, does any one know why Ruger could not? Is it that much more expensive?
its accuracy... it may be a wylde chamber, or it might be a tight 5.56 chamber. IDK, Bolt guns typically have tight chambers to begin with. I know nothing about the savage, so I won't comment on it. if they are claiming both, then it is either a wylde or 5.56. Do they recommend certain ammo, or certain projectiles with it? The longer heavier 75, 77, 80, 85, and 90 grain bullets will cause problems in a 223 chamber most often, either from too short COL or over pressurizing as the ogive hits and "shortening" the cartridge This is where over pressurization happens and is typically why you don't see 223 ammo above 60-65 grain, its not the weight, it is the length of the bullet. If I'm buying a bolt gun, its going to be a 223 chamber for pure accuracy. You won't be shooting the junk 193 and 855 through it anyways as that is nothing more than plinking ammo, or rapid fire though a semi auto.. it is not the most accurate ammo. kind of like bulk 22's... lol

.223 Remington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



as you can see, there isn't a whole lot of difference... a couple thou here and there make the difference. The minute you reload it with most commercial projectiles you will be making 223 anyways.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 11:15 AM   #13
 
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I think I understand & I think I have shifted my thoughts to a RAR. It just seemed when I really looked a few months back there was a lot of surplus 5.56 ammo available. I think I will contact Savage when time permits.

Thanks for the clarification.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 11:47 AM   #14
 
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I agree with freakinstang. If you're runnin' a bolt gun your concern is most likely group size and for the little I know the shorter chamber lends it's self to accuaracy. But I need to study more on the Wilde....hmmmmmmm interesting.
The thing that attracts me to the American in .223 is the twist, adds to the flexability.
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Old January 19th, 2014, 05:10 PM   #15
 
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Federal LC XM193 ammunition- 5.56mm NATO factory ammo should not be fired in a 223 Re

Quote:
Originally Posted by moakes58 View Post
Please bear with me, as I am fairly new to rifles. I'm a little confused now. Everyone is saying the wilde chamber is for semi-auto's, so how does Savage make the chamber on their Axis bolt action rifles so it chambers both 5.56/.223 & still be accurate? And, does any one know why Ruger could not? Is it that much more expensive?
The Savage Axis barrel is marked "Savage Axis 223 Rem. Caliber." The owners manual has " Use only the correct ammuniton that is stamped on the side of the barrel" . There is more, but you get the idea.

Last edited by 243winxb; January 19th, 2014 at 05:14 PM.
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