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> 45 Colt

5K views 17 replies 12 participants last post by  Rodfac 
#1 ·
I just completed loading smokless powder into my .45 LC brass and I know that when loading "the Holy Black" into carteridges the powder is covered with a "wad." to keep the bullet & powder seprated and possibly to aid in compression. I realize that it isn't necessairy to do so with smokless powder which doesn't need compression kinda like placing a copper watchamacallit at the bullet's base but would it be safe to do so?
 
#2 ·
> 45 Colt

Blackpowder needs compression. Unlike smokeless, it explodes rather than burns. An air gap will cause a spike in pressure. Make sure you have the case completely full (with something, be it powder or a wad) with blackpowder.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, I realize that fact about BP I loaded smokeless into the .45 LC brass not BP I know too that there can be an air pocket between the bullet and smokeless. The reason I wish to use a wad over the smokeless powder is because I forgot to lube the brass and would like to keep the powder dry when I do lube the cases.
 
#4 ·
> 45 Colt

Why do you need to lube the cases? Do you have carbide dies? Carbide dies (most pistol dies) don't need lube, and if you have non carbide dies, you only need lube during sizing and maybe belling.

If you're worried about it, just pour the powder back into the measure.
 
#7 ·
This is entertaining, but it raises questions about the general level of reading comprehension.

I use a card wad in the .45-70 black powder loads, along with a drop tube and compression die, but that's my only use of a card or felt wad.

I'm tempted to stop here just to rachet your frustration level up a bit with yet another BP response when you're asking about smokeless. :)

But I won't. The concern with a card wad is the potential to cause a ring in the barrel, since some folks contend that it and/or the bullet ends up potentially acting like an obstruction. People go back and forth on that in various calibers.

For smokeless loads, I have used Dacron quilt batting with pistol powders in mid range cast bullet loads in my .38-55, and some folks suggest that also can reduce leading issues if the bullet is slightly undersized. You'll cut squares from the batting material sized to loosely fill the cartridge under the bullet and lightly hold the powder in place. Poking the wad in with a dowel pencil eraser etc, adds an annoying step, so it's only something I do if it improves accuracy or reduces leading in a load.

I'd recommend that approach to take up space in a case over a card or felt wad but - as you would anytime you modify a load - proceed very carefully and inspect the brass and pistol closely for any incipient problems.
 
#8 ·
I have used cards over light loads many times with no issues! Just do not handle them in a rough manner after loaded so the card will not dislodge! Dacron works awesome! However I use cornmeal over my lighter loads per Verl Smith's recommendation from LBT.
I do this instead of using gas checks! I too have a question about why you need to lube the case at this point? Did you process your brass out of order? If so I would recommend you use unique case lube! It is a paste and you wipe it on with your fingers and it only takes a very small amount! But you could still do this with any other lube as well!
 
#10 · (Edited)
I have used cards over light loads many times with no issues! Just do not handle them in a rough manner after loaded so the card will not dislodge! Dacron works awesome! However I use cornmeal over my lighter loads per Verl Smith's recommendation from LBT.
I do this instead of using gas checks!
Cream of wheat works well too. With either, I use a volumetric measure to fill the case to the level of the bullet.

You need to figure the average weight of the cornmeal with the weight of the bullet when selecting a starting load, and it varies a bit as there isn't what you'd call "canister grade" corn meal or cream of wheat, but volume is volume in terms of metering so it works fine.

In a .38-55 case for example I may end up with 20 grains of filler under the bullet so if I am shooting a 280 gr bullet, I base my starting load on a 300 gr bullet. The weight of the filler is less in a .45 Colt
 
#9 ·
If i load black powder in 45 colt cases, i use a thin card wad over the powder (...after i compress the powder a bit; about 1/16 or so...), then a felt wad soaked in bore butter, then the the bullet. Works like a charm. Not too messy.

Pretty hefty load if ya use fff. A bit calmer with ff. As others have posted;.... DO NOT leave any airspace in a blackpowder load... . The load column (...powder, over powder wad, grease wad, and bullet...) have to be touching eachother for a safe blackpowder load.

Hope this helps.

leroy
 
#14 ·
Your goal in wanting to use the wad with smokeless powder is what? I am trying to understand why you think you want to do this amongst all the fog of the posts from the people that clearly have no idea what you are asking or simply think they are funny. I have heard of using buffer in reloading shotshell and even that could be problematic.

If I were you I would address the question directly to the powder company or simply dismiss it as a bad idea. It sounds like you are worried about powder positioning of a small charge in a big old black powder case. I don't know of any such issues with Titegroup and Hornaday lists a cowboy load of 4.5-5.6 gr of TG under a 255 gr lead bullet. If you are determined to try it contact Hogdon and ask them. I suspect they will tell you it's a bad idea.
 
#15 ·
No, you dont need a wad behind the powder with smokeless loads in the 45 Colt. Might even be dangerous as this changes the powder space. Could result in high pressures. The 45 Colt cases are big but the manuals account for that. If you are worried about the space then Trail Boss might be what you are looking for.
 
#16 ·
No, you dont need a wad behind the powder with smokeless loads in the 45 Colt. Might even be dangerous as this changes the powder space. Could result in high pressures. The 45 Colt cases are big but the manuals account for that. If you are worried about the space then Trail Boss might be what you are looking for.
+1

And with BP, I don't use wads. Just slightly compress with the 250g RNFP bullet and good to go. Nice light smokey loads....
 
#17 ·
Did I miss why you were wanting to lube the case after you had powder in them ??? neither belling or seating should require lube...

or did you mean your cast bullet is unlubed ??? if so, you could use some Lee Alox tumble lube or similar ( I do this on any bullet I don't have a lubrisizer die for )

if you are just looking to put a lubed wad behind the bullet, I think you've grown past needing it with smokeless, & are over complicating things... BTW... you don't need a gas check, if you're using a hard cast bullet, for anything but warm to hot loads...

BTW #2... if you are looking to best duplicate black powder loads, with a powder that fills the case, try Unique, or Trailboss :)
 
#18 ·
Don't know where this thread is going...but...you do not need and kind of wad with smokeless powder in handgun cases...even in .45 Colt. I've shot that cartridge with Bullseye, Win 231, HP38, WST, Herco, Blue Dot, 2400 and Ac#9. None needed a wad between powder and the bullet's base, lead alloy or jacketed. Adding a wad inside the case leads to higher pressures and any loading data from a manual would be compromised by the addition of a wad. Rod
 
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