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How many FPS to not lead the barrel?

This is a discussion on How many FPS to not lead the barrel? within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I ordered some 45 Colt SWC 255 grain and some 357 SWC 158 grain bullets from MBC, both with a Brinell of 18. I looked ...


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Old March 4th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #1
 
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How many FPS to not lead the barrel?

I ordered some 45 Colt SWC 255 grain and some 357 SWC 158 grain bullets from MBC, both with a Brinell of 18. I looked at their equation to figure out Brinell and FPS but math is definetly not my thing. Does anyone have some experience with loading these two bullets and know the optimum FPS to keep from leading the barrel and it still obturate to seal the bore? Thanks.



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Old March 4th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #2
 
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With lead, it has more to do with fit to bore than hardness, although too hard of lead or lube is often the main problem with commercially cast bullets. Those are pretty hard, and if they fit your bore well they can be run fairly fast, but it depends way more on bore fit than hardness.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #3
 
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Fit is everything with cast bullets. I have gotten horrible leading at low velocity with poor fitting bullets and every gun is different. Log onto the cast boolit forum for days and days of good reading from the experts of casting.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #4
 
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You will find that hardness of 18 may be too hard to bump up the 45 colt load unless you are shooting it in a gun that will take very high pressure loads. If your bullets are smaller then your barrel groove dia., there is a very good chance you will get leading. If your barrel groove dia. is .429, you should use cast lead bullets that are sized .430 to .431 in order to seal the bore from hot gases that causes leading.

Factory cast bullets are made that hard to help prevent shipment damage, not to stop leading in your barrel. In my .44 mag and .44 spec. I use a mixture of alloy that is only 9-10bn in hardness and no leading even up to 1400 fps. but those bullets are 2 thousand over the groove dia. of my barrel.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 11:26 PM   #5
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Clippers, You might want to take a look at this document in the Forum Library. Click on this link: http://rugerforum.net/library/19869-...revolvers.html
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Old March 5th, 2013, 12:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Clippers, You might want to take a look at this document in the Forum Library. Click on this link: http://rugerforum.net/library/19869-...revolvers.html
Once again, Iowegan comes to the rescue.

I reload .45 ACP for my semi autos. To this point, I've only used Berry's Bullets, FMJ, round nose, 230g bullets. But, I ran out and of course, I can't find any now. So, while at Cabela's, I found what I thought was an equivalent bullet made by Laser Cast.

These are allegedly high quality lead cast bullets. They aren't jacketed.



After reading Iowegan's file about lead bullets and revolvers, I've come to the conclusion that I can't use these bullets for my purposes.

Could someone confirm this?

And if so confirmed, anybody want a deal on some lead cast bullets?





Edit: I just found this article and apparently some do use cast bullets in semi autos - just not Glocks.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...Vda4VlLFxZ1xoQ

Still confused.

Last edited by jlh820; March 5th, 2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 08:11 AM   #7
 
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Cast bullets (boolits) are very effective in semi-autos, that is what those bullets were designed for. I use cast almost exclusivly in my handguns, for all purposes, hunting,SD , plinking and bear loads. Anything jacketed can do, cast can do, generally at a lower pressure for the same performance.
There are some guys that shoot cast in Glocks and have no trouble at all,if they size their boolits correctly, and there are others that use an aftermarket barrel to shoot cast. I personally don't know enough about making cast run in a Glock to say what i'd do, but any other conventionally rifled auto i would have no problem using cast.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:36 AM   #8
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Cast bullets (boolits) are very effective in semi-autos, that is what those bullets were designed for. I use cast almost exclusivly in my handguns, for all purposes, hunting,SD , plinking and bear loads. Anything jacketed can do, cast can do, generally at a lower pressure for the same performance.
There are some guys that shoot cast in Glocks and have no trouble at all,if they size their boolits correctly, and there are others that use an aftermarket barrel to shoot cast. I personally don't know enough about making cast run in a Glock to say what i'd do, but any other conventionally rifled auto i would have no problem using cast.
Thanks for the info. I don't feel quite so foolish now.

I've got another 100 or so 9mm bullets left. I'm going to finish them up and then switch back to .45 and try these Laser Cast out.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:07 AM   #9
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jlh820, Revolvers deal with some different issues than semi-autos ... ie cylinder throats, B/C gap, and forcing cones. As such, bullet hardness is way more critical in revolvers. Your hard Laser Cast bullets should work OK in a conventional barrel but not in a Glock. All Glock 45 ACP barrels have octagonal rifling versus 6 conventional lands and grooves for standard 45 ACP barrels (ie 1911). As such, Glock barrels will foul badly with hard cast bullets ... in fact fouling can get so bad that barrel pressure will exceed safe limits. The solution is ... A) Buy an aftermarket barrel made for lead bullets or B) Use .452" lead bullets with a BHN of 12. The softer lead bullets will obturate better and prevent excessive fouling.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:39 AM   #10
 
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Those Laser Cast bullets you bought were designed to be used in a 45 acp semi auto pistol. They should be .451 in dia. and will work without very much worry about leading your barrel. I have shot thousands of them in my three 45 acp pistols. Load them up and have fun.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
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Those Laser Cast bullets you bought were designed to be used in a 45 acp semi auto pistol. They should be .451 in dia. and will work without very much worry about leading your barrel. I have shot thousands of them in my three 45 acp pistols. Load them up and have fun.
The label on the box (2nd photo) clearly marks them as .452 diameter.

Standard sizing for 45ACP @ Penn (see 200 gr SWCBB) and Missouri is .452. What am I missing here?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #12
 
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Your not missing anything. .451 is usually specified for jacketed bullets, and .452 for lead .45 Colt and .45 ACP bullets. Again to 'fit' the bore better to prevent blowby which contributes to leading. All I shoot is lead in my revolvers like 429421Cowboy. I don't have a .45ACP pistol, but do shoot the cartridge out of my revolvers. I mostly buy bullets that are in the 12-15BHN range and have shot them from 800fps to 1300fps with no leading. Most my loads are in the 900-1100fps range. Personally I think the Laser Cast are to hard, but if the 'fit' it right, they will work. Try and see. Won't hurt a thing to check it out.... unless your a glock man of course... as I see above .

Oh, and there is more to 'leading' than just bullet hardness... There is throat size, forcing cone, barrel constrictions, alignment, rough barrel, powder choice, velocity, bullet size....... and probably a few other things that could cause 'leading'. Read article above in the library. Helpful!

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Old March 5th, 2013, 01:37 PM   #13
 
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1400 fps without a gascheck about 1800 with.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #14
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jlh820, Revolvers deal with some different issues than semi-autos ... ie cylinder throats, B/C gap, and forcing cones. As such, bullet hardness is way more critical in revolvers. Your hard Laser Cast bullets should work OK in a conventional barrel but not in a Glock. All Glock 45 ACP barrels have octagonal rifling versus 6 conventional lands and grooves for standard 45 ACP barrels (ie 1911). As such, Glock barrels will foul badly with hard cast bullets ... in fact fouling can get so bad that barrel pressure will exceed safe limits. The solution is ... A) Buy an aftermarket barrel made for lead bullets or B) Use .452" lead bullets with a BHN of 12. The softer lead bullets will obturate better and prevent excessive fouling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbilly knifemaker View Post
Those Laser Cast bullets you bought were designed to be used in a 45 acp semi auto pistol. They should be .451 in dia. and will work without very much worry about leading your barrel. I have shot thousands of them in my three 45 acp pistols. Load them up and have fun.

Thanks for the responses. I have 3 1911's and an XDm45 full size. I'm considering getting a Glock 30. But if I do, I know that I can't shoot lead bullets from it.

Hickok45 mentions this on his latest Glock 30S review. He has a Wolfe barrel that he swaps out if he's going to shoot lead, but carries it with JHP's and the stock barrel.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #15
 
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It is all about pressure and boolit fit! 18 bhn wants 22800 to 23700psi to obiturate! that is to squish out the base of the boolit to seal the bore! With a proper fit and the proper pressure you will have no leading! If you are useing these in an auto with good bore fit you will not lead very much! However if your bore is larger then the boolit you will lead quite bad! What happens is the hot gas passes the boolit and vaporizes lead as it does and then solders that lead to the barrel! I cast for everything I own short of 22lr have been for 30 yrs! And fit is the key! I even cast for my 338 lapua! 250gn 28bhn gas check at 2912fps avg! no leading! The problem is that most cast mfg. make the boolits too small to meet saami! play with some and find one that works and stick with it! Or start casting? I enjoy it almost as much as shooting!!
There is great pleasure in hitting a 12" gong at 1000yd with home made loads and boolits! Or grilling an Elk loin over a camp fire you just took with a 325gn cast load from your BH 45lc!
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