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Cartridge O.A.L. for .357 Mag

This is a discussion on Cartridge O.A.L. for .357 Mag within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Well I started to load for my Security Six. I've loaded some 158gr plinking loads and some 173gr Keith type lead flat points that I ...


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Old December 21st, 2012, 12:29 PM   #1
 
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Cartridge O.A.L. for .357 Mag

Well I started to load for my Security Six. I've loaded some 158gr plinking loads and some 173gr Keith type lead flat points that I will be using for hunting. In most of the manuals, the OAL is .1590", although for the 173gr loads I ran them out to 1.610". I placed one in the cylinder and there's still room in the front of the cylinder. My question is this: When loading for a revolver does the same rule apply like loading for a rifle? I'm speaking of in rifles, you set the bullets close to the rifling (or in some cases touching the rifling) so the bullet isn't jumping into the rifling which will cause inconsistency and possibly bad accuracy. Should I run the bullet out closer to the cone but not so far to effect functioning? Would that also have an impact on load pressure / velocity?

Thanks



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Old December 21st, 2012, 01:56 PM   #2
 
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WOW ! you have many questions going on there, and they are all valid questions.
Before I type a million words let me ask a simple question,
Do your bullets have a crimp groove ? I would think yes.
Are you crimping in the crimp groove ? or have some of your other questions influenced you into trying different seating depths ?
I think all these questions can be answered if we take them one at a time.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 02:40 PM   #3
 
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I've attached photos of the bullets and finished cartridges. The plated 158gr bullets have a crimp groove but if I brought it to the groove, it would make it shorter than the 1.590 that is stated in the majority of the reloading data I have read. The lead bullet is set up to where I've brought it to length. Both have a roll crimp in them.



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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:20 AM   #4
 
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I've taken some photos of the bullets and the cartridges I've made. if the nee to be set to the crimp line; the 158gr will be much shorter and the 173gr Keith bullet will be much longer. I would have to check if the OAL will not fit in the cylinder. Went to the range yesterday and with the H110, 13.5 grains seemed to group the best. I loaded (3) different charge weights; 13.0-13.5- 14.0 Oddly enough, 13.5 grains worked best w/ 2400. Charge weights of 13.5-14.0-14.5. the latter of the three showed signs of flattened primers but extracted from the cylinder with ease. Best group(s)were about 6" shooting offhand (two-handed at 25yds) w/ ironsights. Guess I should get a rest to get more accurate results. Here are the boolits I'm using:



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Old December 27th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #5
 
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It's a revolver. You CAN'T load the bullet close to the rifling. Even in rifles, you need to determine the optimal length for each different bullet. There is no magic COL or distance to the rifling for a given gun--it is all based on the bullet geometry and what works in your gun.
The ONLY rule with a revolver is the bullet can not extend out past the cylinder.
Beyond that, YOU need to determine if there is a COL (NOT OAL) that gives you the best accuracy.
In most cases, you are limited to where the crimp groove is, though you can crimp into the lube groove also for a longer COL.
In most cases, you want "some" of the bearing surface to be in the throat of the chambers.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noylj View Post
It's a revolver. You CAN'T load the bullet close to the rifling. Even in rifles, you need to determine the optimal length for each different bullet. There is no magic COL or distance to the rifling for a given gun--it is all based on the bullet geometry and what works in your gun.
The ONLY rule with a revolver is the bullet can not extend out past the cylinder.
Beyond that, YOU need to determine if there is a COL (NOT OAL) that gives you the best accuracy.
In most cases, you are limited to where the crimp groove is, though you can crimp into the lube groove also for a longer COL.
In most cases, you want "some" of the bearing surface to be in the throat of the chambers.

"I" determined through testing the appropriate OAL(over all length) of the cartridge is at the crimp groove of the Keith type bullet which is 1.620 + or - .001; which fits inside the cylinder. "I" did trim the cases with the Lee trim gauge to at least provide consistent pressures and to also be a reference point for case lengthening. Best and consistent group was with 15.0 gr of A2400. Thanks for all your input.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 11:46 AM   #7
 
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In revolvers using bullets with a cannelure, you always crimp in the center of the cannelure....period. OAL is a moot point if they fit in the cylinder. Only problem you may run into is when using mixed brass with a variety of case lengths. If using bullets that seat deeper than bullets in the published recipe, case volume is decreased and charges should be adjusted appropriately. When using bullets without a cannelure, start at suggested OAL. Revolver bullets without a cannelure will jump crimp if used in anything but mild loads. Whole reason for the cannelure. Why have 'em if you don't use 'em.
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Old February 20th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #8
 
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What Length GP-100 Bullets...?

Hello All...

I'm a newbie here and also to revolvers. I purchased a GP100 4", .357 mag. Boy what a beauty and dead nuts accuracy out of the box. (I'm convinced it's the gun and not me.) I tried looking on the forum regarding total bullet length min and max, but all i could find was that as long as the bullet does not extend past the cylinder, the length is fine.

I want to chose a .357 JHP self defense brand and grain, and a 38 Special range brand and grain. What i purchased for the range but have not shot yet was the Winchester 38 Special, 130 gr. FMJ. It measured a total length of 1.434" vs. the Winchester .357 at a total length of 1.575". Seems to me that's a considerable difference.

The .357 Fed Premium 158 gr. Hydra-Shock and Corbon 110 gr. are also 1.575" in length.

Is there a minimum length I should be aware of or avoid, for accuracy and/or safety at the range? (I understand that the .357 is made longer, so that they can not be used in a 38 revolver.)

A big thanks in advance.
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Old February 20th, 2017, 02:12 PM   #9
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Christoph, If you don't already own a recent reloading manual, you need to buy one. Use the reloading manual's recommended COL for the same bullet you are loading. Just remember .... seating a bullet too deep will increase chamber pressure .... possibly to dangerous levels. Bullet weight helps determine the bullet's length so you don't just seat a bullet where it looks good .... it has to be where the book says it is supposed to be.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 11:47 AM   #10
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I always figgered the guys that designed the bullets were smarter and/or more informed than I am so for the first 20 years of reloading revolvers, I seated to the crimp groove. I got some pretty accurate (for me) loads at about 1 1/4" @ 50' from my Dan Wesson 44. Later I tried some variations in seating depth, but found no advantage, no detectable increase in accuracy in my 38 Specials nor .44 Magnums...
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Old February 21st, 2017, 12:43 PM   #11
 
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In revolvers , crimp in the crimp groove (cast lead) or cannelure (jacketed), OAL not critical here. You don't want the bullet extending past the end of the cylinder, check that.
If the bullet does not have a crimp groove or cannelure , some plated bullets don't, if you can find an OAL...data on plated hard to find at times, you will have to set the depth depending on the weight of the bullet , length of cylinder and common sense.
Smooth sided bullets are best taper crimped because there is no place for a roll crimp to go into.
I cast some 125 grain truncated cone for 9 mm Luger and use them in 38 special and 357 magnum by using the 9 mm taper crimp die to seat the bullets. I seat them to the same depth as they go into the 9 mm. Not the same OAL but the depth the bullet goes into the case. Just below where the truncated cone starts.
Hope that makes sense.
Gary
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