Seneca

Arms and ammunition makers are held to standards set forth by SAAMI, reloaders are under no obligation to adhere to those standards nor do reloaders readily have the means available to ensure their ammunition does or would conform to SAAMI standards.

It's not that they're dead set against reloaders and reloading, it's that reloaded ammo is not standardized...Quality and suitability is established by the individual reloader.

nclarkin

JBnTx, I think it is the manufacturers way of refusing to assume the responsibilty of the reckless action of another (probably what you mean). The responsibility of the reckless action lies with the individual committing the reckless action - no one else!!!. As, I've seen posted before, stupid hurts. Unfortunately, innocent by-standers sometimes pay with injury or even death because of reckless (stupid) actions of others.

moonpie

i won't argue about the liability issues because that was my first thought too. but we should acknowledge that all manufacturers design their products to function within a fairly narrow range of application. their reputations depend on a certain level of performance within these guidelines. i personally could not blame Poulan for a negative reaction to Bubba using their chainsaw to put a sunroof in his pickup truck. we stray from the straight and narrow at our own peril. all in all what gunmakers do they do damned well.

Seneca

Speaking of reloading I need to get busy if I want to have something to shoot at the range this weekend...

I use to recommend reloading...now not so much...simply because some people don't have the chops for reloading and will eventually, by accident or otherwise screw it up and create a dangerous situation. Then blame me because I was the one who suggested they get into reloading...lol

Sr40ken

I've lost casual friends because I wouldn't reload for them. I don't know how thier firearm has been treated. They get some smucks hotloads two boxes ago then it fails on my rounds then who gets the blame? same goes for recommending loads. I'll tell ya what powder I use but you need to read the book for how much.JMHO

Tobie

Do you remember the famous, or infamous, who took the wheels off a push mower, used it to trim their hedge and sued because the lost a couple of fingers? That's why. I personally witnessed a schmud at our local range disassemble a brand new S&W 1911 by double charging his ammo because " that piddly little bit of powder (bullseye) don't look like it was enough". It's very difficult to foolproof anything because fools are so smart.

laidlerj

When I was living in Alaska, I saw a snowblower with the warning "Do not put your head inside this opening!" above the mouth of the snowblower. Too many manufacturers have been sued for people's absolute stupidity for them to NOT put warnings and disclaimers about literally every possible dangerous action, no matter how unlikely.

If your gun is damaged by factory ammunition, the gun company - if it fixes your gun under warranty - can sue the ammunition company for what it cost them to fix it. If your reloads damage your gun...well, who do you think gets to pay for it?

That said, I think that some gun manufacturers use reloads as an "easy out" when a customer reports a broken gun - if you ever used reloads, they can say "It was the reloads that broke it." and not have to cover it under warranty.

Same thing applies to your car/truck, by the way. Years ago, a friend of mine bought an early SUV made by company based in a country in Asia. Buried in the user's manual was a warning that using the vehicle off-road would void the warranty. I laughed myself sick - but then, it wasn't MY car.

While I'm an avid reloader, I tend to shy away from commercial reloads, except from well-known suppliers. I also don't shoot other people's reloads. My reasoning is that I am willing to be responsible for my own screw-ups, but I don't like paying for someone else's. If I double-charge a round or put in the wrong powder or primer, then I'll pay the price for my own mistake.

However, there's no way I can tell from the outside whether a remanufactured round has too much powder or the wrong powder or....you get the idea. The big companies churn out millions of rounds a year with only a few flaws (and almost NEVER put in the wrong powder - although that HAS happened), and they have the resources to pay to fix my gun (if not my eyes and fingers). Not so much with the guy who sells reloads on a folding table at the gun show.


Jim

Tobie

While we're talking about screw-ups- add my name to the list. I was told by the manager at our local shop that TN residdents who have a carry permit don't have to get a background check to purchase a gun. This morning, I met a fellow L/E- he's ATF- and mentioned this to him as a good thing- he looked at me like I had farted. The manager got a new batch of 4473s and doing his/her due diligence- read the form. It seems that in states who use the NICS system, this is true BUT- here in TN, we use our own TICS ( TN Instant Check System)
Needless to say, this caused a great deal of heartburn. I reported this yesterday and truly regret having given some a moment of thinking that our government had finally seen the light-- I was mistaken---sadly------the light is still out.

Tobie

Jim,
Do you recall the famous Jeep lawsuit? A guy took his Jeep inbecause the transmission malfunctioned. Jeep refused to repair it under warranty since it had been inwater over 10 inches deep. The victim in this case recorded several advertisments fron TV which plainly showed said Jeeps fording water above the wheel centers. We find for the plaintiff, court's adjourned.

Seneca

SR40ken,
I hear you...I've had people get ticked off at me because I wouldn't provde them with handloads...Just one of those things I won't do...

Nick0410

If you added in the time you spend, they will be paying factory price anyway, times not free!

Seneca

and not all rewards are monitary...

Though I have used that logic to disuade others...

rodrick

Pure and simple, product liability. Factory spec ammo is generally good, with reloads the pressures can be all over the place. I for a while now have been keeping my reloads mild, but have loaded my share of ammo to higher pressures. Just watch for excessive pressure signs and chronograph your loads and you shouldn't have any problems.

Gringo

This may be a dumb question but do you basically void the gun's warranty if you shoot reloads? The disclaimer in the owner's manual seems to say that.

GunBlue

Arms manufacturers are not against reloading. They are simply stating their disclaimer of liability, which requires terse language. If you belong to a shooting club, you have signed a terse waiver that exempts the other members from anything you might do, and they are certainly not against shooting. If they didn't have this language, their factories would have been shut down many moons ago by very silly torts.

Have you not watched the lawyer ads on TV every night? Don't yell at the wrong people who are making our guns. Gun manufacturers are your friend. It's the lawyers you need to go after with tort reform, but nobody wants to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. I venture that many people who complain about gun warning labels would be the first to sign onto a class action suit for some widget they bought ten years ago. Much of what we spend on products of every sort is funding legal divisions with very big expense sheets.

To answer Gringo, it's not a dumb question. Handloaded ammunition is no different than factory loaded ammunition, if you follow established guidelines. Arms manufacturers know this... Factory ammunition is sold in vast lots. The lots are either good or they are on the occasional recall list. If your gun blows up catastrophically and the ammo is not a listed factory recall, they know it was a handload. Modern guns simply don't blow up unless they are fed with bad ammo or their bores are obstructed; neither of which are the manufacturer's fault. If you have a gun blow up, you have greater concerns than worrying about who's going to pay for the gun... the ride in the ambulance will cost more than the gun repair. Reloading is a very safe hobby, but must be done with diligence and care, following the rules, as you would do anything.