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Seating/crimping bullets with no cannelure?

This is a discussion on Seating/crimping bullets with no cannelure? within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Hi all, For those of you with experience seating/crimping bullets with no cannelure I have a question. The Rainier plated 250 gr bullets I recently ...


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Old February 21st, 2012, 02:51 PM   #1
 
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Seating/crimping bullets with no cannelure?

Hi all,

For those of you with experience seating/crimping bullets with no cannelure I have a question.

The Rainier plated 250 gr bullets I recently purchased have no cannelure (crimp line). When using the Lee seating/crimping die on a Lee Classic Turret press should I do so with the seating die backed out so that the bullet is seated only with this die (no crimp) and then crimp with the Lee factory crimp die?

From what I have read on Rainier's site this seems to be the way to go but I want to verify it with those of you that have experience with these bullets.

Thanks!



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Old February 21st, 2012, 03:21 PM   #2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdog View Post
Hi all,

For those of you with experience seating/crimping bullets with no cannelure I have a question.

The Rainier plated 250 gr bullets I recently purchased have no cannelure (crimp line). When using the Lee seating/crimping die on a Lee Classic Turret press should I do so with the seating die backed out so that the bullet is seated only with this die (no crimp) and then crimp with the Lee factory crimp die?

From what I have read on Rainier's site this seems to be the way to go but I want to verify it with those of you that have experience with these bullets.

Thanks!
I can't give an answer with any certainty because you failed to tell us what caliber your reloading for?
Sal
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Old February 21st, 2012, 03:27 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
I can't give an answer with any certainty because you failed to tell us what caliber your reloading for?
Sal
This will be 45 colt using Starline brass (but I will using their 230 gr bullets for 45 ACP loading eventually as well and these also have no cannelure).

Last edited by Bikerdog; February 21st, 2012 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Additional info needed
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Old February 21st, 2012, 04:06 PM   #4
 
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Two different animals.
45 ACP uses a taper crimp and the Lee FCD will do the correct job of applying the taper crimp using the procedure you stated, just follow the directions for the FCD.

45 Colt is a revolver and the Lee FCD in revolver calibers does not apply a taper crimp, they use a modified gentle roll crimp and can present the same problems with plated bullets as any other roll crimp die. Care must be used and a fine line danced between having enough crimp so the bullets don't jump under recoil, or applying too much crimp and cutting through the plating and causing accuracy and other issues.

It is for this reason the I gave up on trying to use plated bullets in any revolver caliber a long time ago. They're just too fussy and too much a PITA.
Get a good lead bullet in the correct hardness for the power lever you desire.
Sal

Last edited by Sal1950; February 21st, 2012 at 04:10 PM.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM   #5
 
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Thanks for the help Sal!

I would love to use lead bullets for my loading but unfortunately the indoor range we belong to does not allow them (in fact I believe none of the indoor ranges in the area do).

I know others on this site use and love Rainier's bullets so I am hoping for some tips from those that have loaded these.

Thanks again!
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Old February 21st, 2012, 04:48 PM   #6
 
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My memory is not what it used to be; but I was discussing this same thing about some Berry's plated bullets I plan to use and I am pretty sure I was told or read to treat them just like a lead bullet. Hope somebody else gives us a definitive answer.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 05:08 PM   #7
 
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SW Gun Guy. Thanks for the response.

Rainier's site says to treat their plated bullets like a lead bullet for load data and they also say to use a slight taper crimp and mention the Lee FCD but I have emailed them for clarification on this with regards to the 45 colt cartridge. I will let you know what their response is.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 05:32 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdog View Post
Thanks for the help Sal!

I would love to use lead bullets for my loading but unfortunately the indoor range we belong to does not allow them (in fact I believe none of the indoor ranges in the area do).

I know others on this site use and love Rainier's bullets so I am hoping for some tips from those that have loaded these.

Thanks again!
They're good bullets, it's just that non-cannelured bullets are very tricky to load for revolvers. Worthless for Magnum level rounds IMHO
If your loading 45 Colt light to Cowboy velocities your problems may be minimal. Load some up with a light crimp and test them. Load 6 and shoot 5, measure the OAL of the one you didn't shoot, did it move? Mark back of round with a marker and reload this round back in the gun with 5 fresh rounds. Index the cylinder so shooting the gun 5 more times will fire the 5 new rounds and not the original one, measure it again for OAL, did it move?
Old rule of thumb is round should be able to endure this 3 times without movement for safety. You might give it a break and only ask it to survive 2 firing cycles if your shooting light cowboy loads.
If bullets are moving, increase crimp.
If you think you got the crimp where you want it, use a bullet puller to pull an unfired round. A very light indentation in bullet is OK, split plating is not.
Good Luck
Sal
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Old February 21st, 2012, 05:39 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdog View Post
Rainier's site says to treat their plated bullets like a lead bullet for load data and they also say to use a slight taper crimp and mention the Lee FCD but I have emailed them for clarification on this with regards to the 45 colt cartridge. I will let you know what their response is.
Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die - Lee Precision

"Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition. It eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders."
Sal
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Old February 21st, 2012, 05:43 PM   #10
 
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Thanks for the suggestion Sal. I will give that method a try. I won't be loading any magnum loads in these (these are for a NM Flattop Blackhawk). I plan on using Unique powder and loading 8-8.5 grs. (I believe this would be close to factory velocities for a 250 gr bullet).
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Old February 21st, 2012, 05:49 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die - Lee Precision

"Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds."
Sal
Thanks! That clears up my confusion as to the problem with the factory crimp die.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 06:21 PM   #12
 
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I'm new to reloading and have done some research on many things related to it. I have read many time that the 45ACP Lee FCD is a tapered crimp and the 45LC is a roll crimp. So now you have one more person that agrees. lol I'm glad you asked this question because I learned that it's OK to roll crimp the 45LC with jacketed bullets. Up to now I have only used lead. Thanks to all of you.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 06:46 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by TheWall View Post
I'm new to reloading and have done some research on many things related to it. I have read many time that the 45ACP Lee FCD is a tapered crimp and the 45LC is a roll crimp. So now you have one more person that agrees. lol I'm glad you asked this question because I learned that it's OK to roll crimp the 45LC with jacketed bullets. Up to now I have only used lead. Thanks to all of you.
Don't have to take anyone's word on crimp, just read Lee's own site that I linked.

Only type of crimp dies available for revolver calibers are roll.
And there in lays the difficulty in loading non-cannelured plated bullets in revolver calibers. It's tricky at best.
Sal
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Old February 21st, 2012, 06:53 PM   #14
 
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FWIW I plan to use rounds purchased from a local cartridge company as a rough visual seating/crimping guide. These rounds are also made using Starline brass and what appears to be the same Rainier 250 gr bullets I will be using:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 45ColtRound.jpg (88.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 45ColtRound2.jpg (88.9 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by Bikerdog; February 21st, 2012 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Vocabulary correction
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Old February 21st, 2012, 09:01 PM   #15
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I use a 45 ACP taper crimp die on my 45 Colt loads when there is no cannelure. It works perfect!
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