Ruger Forum

tglazie · August 11th, 2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovishound

The primers all seemed to be seated slightly below flush. I am now using a ram prime for mine. My buddy is still using the same Lee hand primer that the FTF ammo were loaded with. He is no longer having trouble with his, now that he has switched primer brand. I assume he is seating them to the same depth.

The ones that didn't fire were all Winchester.

OK thanks. I use a ram myself, personally I prefer it to handpriming but for others its the opposite. To each his own.

I was having serious trouble finding Federal primers, either locally or online, and nearly made the jump to Winchester. Glad I held out and found a source of Feds.

good luck and happy loading.

tgwillard · August 13th, 2012, 06:14 PM

I clean the primer pocket. With small numbers of brass, I will use my RCBS large or small primer pocket brush with the green handle. For volume work, I put the brush in my drill press and grab two at a time.

mcoe74 · August 13th, 2012, 06:50 PM

I use a Lee Pocket Cleaner if they look dirty or have media in the pocket (from cleaning).

GunBlue · August 13th, 2012, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovishound

I am new to reloading. I picked up some 100 box primers of the same make at two different LGSs. Both my buddy and I had multiple failure to fires from these two boxes of primers. Two different guns used.

We both switched primer brand. Have not had any failures since. While it is possible that there was something we were doing during the primer seating process, like not fully seating the primers, I put my money on the primers themselves. If the problem resurfaces with a different brand, we will look further into the seating.

Failures of primers are statistically so rare that you have a better chance of winning Mega Bucks before a bad primer comes your way. Kept in the correct environment, protected from contamination, they are 100% trouble free. If I didn't believe that, there are a lot of cops on the street right now wondering if their guns will go off. Ain't so. But they can and do fail to go off due to mechanical ignition problems that have nothing to do with the primers.

With reloads, be sure they primers are seated tightly. Even a dirty primer pocket will provide ample anvil pressure for ignition, provided it's seated firmly. I can say that with 100% certainty after over 40 years of testing and shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds professionally. They are simply never at fault, provided sufficient force is applied with the firing pin, AND the primer anvil is correctly seated, so that the percussion is not cushioned.

Next is the issue of the gun. That's where the lion's share of ignition problems stem. My many years as an armorer and range officer have taught me that many folks tinker with hammer springs to get a better trigger pull, especially with DA revolvers. Each brand of primer can have slightly different ignition sensitivity, which accounts for one brand going off when the other won't.

In a nutshell, primers don't fail, but the ignition force can. Don't EVER doctor a hammer spring with a gun that you need for self defense. I wish I had a Dollar for every S&W hammer spring tension screw that was backed out or shortened when it got to my bench with the complaint "this gun misfires".

Nowadays, the issue is often with hybrid skeleton hammers. The lack of natural inertia and moment for ignition must be compensated for with a stouter spring.

I'd place money that both of you have light hammer/firing pin/striker falls (my other observation has been that one friend will "enhance" all his buddies' triggers and they all suddenly have a case of bad ammo).

Fix them to spec and your primers will work beautifully.

Clovishound · August 14th, 2012, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunBlue

In a nutshell, primers don't fail, but the ignition force can. Don't EVER doctor a hammer spring with a gun that you need for self defense. I wish I had a Dollar for every S&W hammer spring tension screw that was backed out or shortened when it got to my bench with the complaint "this gun misfires".

Nowadays, the issue is often with hybrid skeleton hammers. The lack of natural inertia and moment for ignition must be compensated for with a stouter spring.

I'd place money that both of you have light hammer/firing pin/striker falls (my other observation has been that one friend will "enhance" all his buddies' triggers and they all suddenly have a case of bad ammo).

Fix them to spec and your primers will work beautifully.

Both my gun, and my buddy's gun are completely stock. I don't know how many rounds he has through his, but my gun has about 1000 rounds through it. I have had no light strikers, or failures to fire, other than the reloads with this brand primer. The failures to fire happened with both our weapons. He has not had any failure to fires, other than these reloads either.

In my mind that means the fault lies either with the way the primers were seated, or the primers themselves.

My reloads now, are being primed with a ram prime. His are still being primed with the same hand primer device. He has had no more problems since switching brand of primers. With the problematic reloads, he primed some of them, and I primed some.

I am tempted to pick up another small box of the same brand and try them with the ram prime and see if any fail. I rather think I will just stick with what is working for me now.

TMD · August 14th, 2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunBlue

Failures of primers are statistically so rare that you have a better chance of winning Mega Bucks before a bad primer comes your way. Kept in the correct environment, protected from contamination, they are 100% trouble free. If I didn't believe that, there are a lot of cops on the street right now wondering if their guns will go off. Ain't so. But they can and do fail to go off due to mechanical ignition problems that have nothing to do with the primers.

Your kidding me right??? That or you don't shoot much.

tglazie · August 14th, 2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMD

Your kidding me right??? That or you don't shoot much.

I fail to see the problem with gunblue's statement. A hard primer that has not been seated properly is more prone to FTF than a soft primer not seated properly- but this has not a fault of the hard primer, which is how I am interpreting what gunblue said. Such a FTF is a result of mechanical forces (the primer moving into the pocket from the force of the pin striking it. This movement cushions the firing pin impact enough to prevent primer ignition.

Every failure has a cause. Just blaming the primer is a mistake. I choose to use Federal primers because that are softer and more forgiving of lighter springs and slightly high primers.

Just my opinion.

johnjohn · August 15th, 2012, 06:30 PM

I don't.

MidLife · August 15th, 2012, 06:45 PM

Cleaning primer pockets is a step in hand loading.
Cleaning primer pockets is not a step in reloading.
I promise I wont rat you out if you sneak out in the dark of night to clean your primer pockets!

scooter89 · August 15th, 2012, 06:57 PM

I personally clean them every time as i clean my brass in an ultrasonic cleaner now, but even before i had access to a sonic cleaner, i used a lee pocket tool on my brass every time i reload it. Just sit in front of a good movie or tv show, have 2 plastic bowls, one dirty, one for cleaned. I learned the hard way to put down a towel or blanket. After doing a couple hundred cases, theres a bunch of carbon scrapings on my clothes and my chair.

Sr40ken · August 15th, 2012, 07:49 PM

in the last 10,000 or so rounds I've fired I've had 2 rounds not got off on the first strike. One was my reload with a new case the other a Remington Golden Sabre. I guess the primer pocket wasn't clean enough.
If you're carrying and assume everything is always gonna work right you need to go back to school. And those that say you MUST clean your primer pocket may as well be trying to argue which motor oil is best.
And to those that want to call me a reloader because I don't clean the pockets everytime, bring 'em on, let the targets do the talking. And your judgmental labels, well, you can.................

MidLife · August 16th, 2012, 06:21 PM

Judgemental labels?
Oh please!
From Wiki

Quote:

Historically, handloading referred to the private manufacture of cartridges and shells using all newly manufactured components, whereas reloading referred to the private manufacture of cartridges and shells using previously fired cartridge cases and shotgun hulls using new bullets, shot, primers, and powder. In modern usage, some make no distinction between these terms, while others find important distinctions.[1] One key distinction is the purpose for the practice; handloaders often seek smaller batches of high-quality ammunition, whereas reloaders are said to make large quantities of ammunition that does not need to be of as high quality but at least one authority (McPherson) holds that a better distinction for these connotations is that, regardless of quantity, handloads tend to be of generally high quality while reloads tend to be merely functional.

Sr40ken · August 16th, 2012, 06:29 PM

"Historically, handloading referred to the private manufacture of cartridges and shells using all newly manufactured components, whereas reloading referred to the private manufacture of cartridges and shells using previously fired cartridge cases and shotgun hulls using new bullets, shot, primers, and powder. In modern usage, some make no distinction between these terms, while others find important distinctions.[1] One key distinction is the purpose for the practice; handloaders often seek smaller batches of high-quality ammunition, whereas reloaders are said to make large quantities of ammunition that does not need to be of as high quality but at least one authority (McPherson) holds that a better distinction for these connotations is that, regardless of quantity, handloads tend to be of generally high quality while reloads tend to be merely functional."
Let's see, not one mention of pocket cleaning, the "one authority" must have FAILED to make that "distinction". SO I make small batches but don't always clean the primer pocket, what "distinction" doth that make................lordy lordy!
"And your judgmental labels, well, you can................. "

brimic · August 16th, 2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

If you're carrying and assume everything is always gonna work right you need to go back to school. And those that say you MUST clean your primer pocket may as well be trying to argue which motor oil is best.
And to those that want to call me a reloader because I don't clean the pockets everytime, bring 'em on, let the targets do the talking. And your judgmental labels, well, you can.................

Agree 100%
If anyone can show me where scraping a tiny film of carbon from a primer pocket made any difference in accuracy or reliability, I'm all ears.

rclark · August 16th, 2012, 07:42 PM

Whether you are handloading or reloading, or re-reloading, or .... Doesn't matter how shiny the brass is or how dull, or clean/no clean primer pockets, or you name it.... As long as the bullets hit where YOU want them, that is all that matters... At least to me.