Lost Sheep

Once every dozen or so reloadings of a case, a trim might be appropriate, but no more often than that. And that can be done before approaching the press. I've never done it. Don't even own a case trimmer.

Primer pocket initial swaging/forming only needs to be done once, if at all (military brass with a crimp on the primer pocket, for example). Primer pocket cleaning has never been an issue with me, so I don't. I have gotten good ignition forever in my Rugers, Colts and Dan Wessons.

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep

In fact, I took it as a tongue-in-cheek compliment. So, thank you.

The text you see is the second draft of an endeavor I began about a week ago in response to a newbie's post in another forum. It is still a work in progress and the feedback from all you kind folks will inform my third draft.

It also serves to clarify my own mind. Besides, I enjoy wordsmithing almost as much as reloading, shooting, making music.

Lost Sheep

MidLife

1. Whenever the cases need trimming, they need trimming.
2. Whenever the primer pockets need cleaning, they need cleaning.

Dano

I shoot for fun, not for competition. Having said that, I have loaded thousands of rounds for both revolver and pistol on my lee classic turret press. I have never trimed a case and I have never cleaned a primer pocket. The classic turret press was my first press. I was not difficult to figure out how to set it up and make it work.

You can fine tune the process and slow it down as much as you like for either accuracy or just because that is the kind of person you are.

I consider case trimming and primer pocket cleaning to fall into the fine tuning catagory.

Dano

Ale-8(1)

I, too, have a "deprime only" setup using a cheapo LEE press. Everything else is done on a 'Chucker.

I have never -- NEVER -- length-trimmed a straight-wall handgun case in over forty years of reloading. Yes, including cases for semi-auto pistols. This has presented exactly zero problems.

"Bottleneck" rifle cases are another matter altogether.

MidLife

Ever since I have been reloading, I have trimmed my cases (if required) and cleaned the primer pockets (if required) and I can attest that I have had zero problems. Additionally, I check the COAL length of each of my finished rounds and this has never caused any problems with my finished rounds.

BCB

Won't argue that point, but my question still is not answered!!!

At what station are these processes done?

My whole point is to demonstrate that a progressive system many not be the best for beginning reloaders. Plus they are very expensive if you get a good one...

I do trim my cases and I have never reloaded a cartridge a dozen or so times and not had to trim! Since semi rounds taper crimp, the length may not be so critical. But, I crimp into the crimping groove of all the boolits I cast for my handguns (revolvers), and length can be an issue. I clean the primer pockets maybe every other time. And, I clean the cases in a vibratory cleaner every other time also...

Consistency and pride in the finished product is a very appealing aspect of the handloading hobby...

BCB

MidLife

I completely agree!

I haven't seen a press that does those two functions, yet. But, then again, I am new to reloading this year. Maybe there is one, but, I don't need one. I have the hand tools.
Case trimming of striaght wall cases comes up frequently here. It seems the (perceived) majority think it is not a critical function for handguns. I am of the minority, however. I do it. I would also encourage new reloaders to consider adding it to their learning process. Ammunition, I believe, that is not mass factory produced should be held to higher standards. I have 2,500 factory new cases from a reputable case manufacturer and while the majority of the cases are uniform, there are some that are outside of specified tolerences. I consider it prudent to strickly adhere to loading manuals and charge weights AS WELL as other measurements and functions of the reloading process. The COAL and trim length are valid considerations. I probably spent $15 bucks on the below tools and consider it worth it for the serious reloader. But, that's just me!

Ale-8(1)

BCB, we understand your point: progressive presses do not provide for trimming case length or cleaning primer pockets. OK?

Just so's you know, I tumble-clean my cases after each firing, after depriming so the tumbling does a pretty good job of cleaning the primer pockets. I examine them on a random basis and "ream" them when/if required . . . by hand . . . not in a press.

Everyone is of course welcome to trim cases as they see fit . . . if there's any need.

BCB

Good, that was my entire intention…

My point is that the progressive reloaders have a place in the handloading hobby, but I honestly don’t think it is for the beginning reloader…

An ol’ timer started me into reloading nearly 40 years ago—his advice, get an RCBS Rockchucker press with a moderately priced reloading kit. That is what I did and I have all of the components that came with the RCBS kit. I have since upgraded and added to the components, but the original equipment is still used every time I “build” a functional cartridge. The Rockchucker single stage is still the only press (partially true) I have had and I think I have shot a few rounds…

Part of the reloading hobby is observing every step of the reloading process. It gets very difficult to do that with a progressive press, pull the lever and every time a loaded round falls in the bucket—well and good…

But, to this day, I still look at each round I am loading at each step of the process. Slow? Yep, a little bit, but I still manage to get a couple of hundred rounds a month from handguns. Used to be many more, but I have somewhat slowed down at bit…

I started casting boolits only 10 years ago, so I was a bit uncertain. I could have taken the “buy a progressive press” type of advice and purchased a Magma boolit casting machine and consumed 100’s of pounds of wheel weights and cast 3000-4000 rounds per hour. Now wouldn’t that have been a moronic thing to do? Instead, I purchase and inexpensive Lee 10-pound pot and a good mold. My first was an RCBS 38-148-WC. It was a reasonable investment into a field that I wasn’t sure I wanted to pursue. Well, I did pursue it and I have upgraded some of my casting equipment. I cast all that I can shoot using a 20-pound pot now and cast a couple of hours each month. And I have approximately 20+ molds (some people have hundreds) without going and counting them. Still, I could have started with an $11,000 Magma casting machine…

If one starts with a somewhat labor intensive means of reloading, I think the observations and learning process will be greatly enhanced. THEN if one feels the must go progress, well have a go at it…

But I would be willing to bet that most will stay with the tried and true single stage reloading outfit…

You don’t start a young hunter to be out with a 300 Winchester Magnum and expect that person to have a nice shooting experience. A 6mm, or an ol’ 30-30 or other lesser recoil rifles would be better. After the shooter gets experience, well let them decide…

That’s my opinion—ain’t bad mouthing progressive, but they have a purpose that fills a small niche in the reloading hobby as far as I am concerned…

BCB

Cowboy T

Gotta agree on the Classic Turret Press. That's probably the most versatile single press out here; will do anything from .25 ACP to .460 Weatherby. Nice list there, Lost Sheep. I would take your $287 point and add a tumbler. The reason for the tumbler is two-fold.

1.) I find it easier to see case defects when the brass is all nice 'n' prettied up.
2.) It helps to keep powder grit out of the dies. I know, the carbide resizing ring won't care, but clean(er) dies are rather easier to use. Also helps keep light scratching of the cases to a minimum.

It should not, and does not, take a lot of money to get started with a good reloading bench.

Lost Sheep

As nearly as I can tell cleaning of primer pockets is not done at any station of the press. That is, I know of no press where that operation could be done on-press. It would have to be done in an operation by itself, off-press.

Case trimming can be done on-press, but most popularly done on a single-stage, as there is more room to work. On a Turret, the other dies would tend to be in the way. On most progressives, I don't think it is even possible.

So, to both questions, the answer is that it is not done at any station. Not for primer pocket cleaning and not likely for case trimming.

My focus of the original post was announced as straight-walled cases (seldom needing trimming more than once, if that, anyway), and deliberately avoided progressives. One of the reasons for posting it was to gather critiques so I could improve the draft (this is actually my second draft and my first public outing), so I thank you sincerely for helping me improve my rhetoric.

Keep the comments coming.

Thank you.

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep

Thanks, BCB. That is my opinion, too. I started out with an RCBS Jr, in 1975 then within a year traded up to a Rockchucker.

Then I got a chance around 1978-1980 to get a pair of Lee Pro-1000 progressive presses, and they served pretty well until 2005. But I was not very happy with them because the primer feeding was problematic, the caliber changing was irritating and (what I think you are getting at) I was continually nervous about monitoring multiple operations simultaneously. I much prefer doing one operation at a time.

The batch mode of the single stage is OK, but multiple removal and insertions of the the same cartridge case over and over again was wasteful of time and motion.

Now, here's the interesting part. For almost 30 years, I didn't even know there WAS such a thing as a turret press that could operate as a single stage and rotate the dies into loading position. I thought there was Single Stage and Progressive and nothing in between.

When I heard people discussing Turret presses, I thought that was just another name for Progressive.

Once I saw a genuine turret in the flesh, I was hooked, and a year later I decided I was even willing to swap out whatever needed deleting from my loading bench to make me happy.

I get really irritated when I have to change my behavior to accommodate my equipment (which is, after all, supposed the serve MY needs, not the other way around). This is especially bothersome with software, but that is another forum.

Suffice it to say that, for me, dumping my progressives for a turret (with the Rockchucker as my "go-to" backup for really tough jobs) has me smiling. Hence my eagerness to share my satisfaction through my original post.

Lost Sheep

nbh40

Cheapest case tumbler - a small mesh bag (I think mine used to hold tennis balls). Fill with cases and put in the dishwasher (when wife is out). Then wrap in a towel and put in the tumble dryer. REALLY shiny cases!!

Ale-8(1)

Lost Sheep, it sounds to me like you're on the right track.

I started with a 'Chucker and have remained with it all these years. I have nothing against turrets or progressives, they simply aren't necessary for the volume of reloading/shooting I do.

I do the "batch thing". After shooting, the cases get deprimed, tumbled, resized, then bagged up until I feel like messing with them again.

Next time around I re-prime with a little LEE hand-primer, flare the cases, and store 'em again.

Last step is to charge the cases and seat bullets, then crimp them in a separate operation. I just like the final two-step approach for seating/crimping. Whatever works for you. To me, the reloading is as much fun as the shooting. It's "quality time in the dungeon."

It's all good.