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Hornady 7th Edition 357 Magnum Loads for H110

This is a discussion on Hornady 7th Edition 357 Magnum Loads for H110 within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; When consulting my Hornady 7th edition. the loads they list are against the powder manufacturer's strict warnings about cutting the max load more than 3% ...


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Old November 23rd, 2010, 01:09 PM   #1
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Hornady 7th Edition 357 Magnum Loads for H110

When consulting my Hornady 7th edition. the loads they list are against the powder manufacturer's strict warnings about cutting the max load more than 3%
Not sure what to make off this.
HDY 158gr XTP bullet.
H 110 Start: 12.7gr WSPM primer
H 110 Max: 15.6gr WSPM primer

All my other manuals state start around 16 and max around 17

Thoughts?



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Old November 23rd, 2010, 01:49 PM   #2
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MidLife, You must be comparing loads using the older SAAMI max chamber pressure specs (46,000 CUP). The new SAAMI max chamber pressure spec is 35,000 psi, which works out to 16 gr of H-110 with a 158 gr bullet. For a safety margin, the max powder charge should be about 15.5 gr and should achieve 1200 fps from a 6" barrel. The minimum charge weight should be 12.5 gr @ 1000 fps, both well within the upper and lower limits. The old "do not reduce more than 3% below" was found to be way too conservative ... in fact, new data max loads are lower than the old starting loads.

FYI, Hodgdon tests its powder for proper burn rate and uniformity but dies not conduct actual SAAMI pressure standards tests. Their charts are mostly old data (1990s) .... back when pressure was rated in CUP and are borrowed from old bullet manufacturers references such as Speer, Hornady, Sierra, etc that have SAAMI certified test lab facilities. Your most current data will be found in the Hornady 7th Ed or Speer #14 manuals.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 01:57 PM   #3
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Thanks.
Actually that's another thing I don't like about they Hornady book. There is no pressure data. Not sure why they don't measure pressures?

Hodgdon's data for the same bullet is Start: 16.2 Max: 16.7

That's quite a difference!
Is the 3% warning "new" or "old"?
I am just going by the powder manufacturer's website.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:27 PM   #4
 
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I got called on this on another forum when I posted some loads I had tried in my Rossi 92 in 357. My starting loads were well under 15 gr and my 16.5 gr loads were giving pressure signs. Today I shot some Speer 158gr loads with 14.3 gr of 296 (very close to H110?) that were some of the most accurate I have tried to date. But my best results were with 2400 about 200 fps slower. They were all in the same hole at 25 meters.

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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:37 PM   #5
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Is this H 110 powder still bulky enough to be reduced so significantly (nearly 4-5 gr) from the original loadings as to not experince "issues" that can occur when the powder in the case volumme is different as with other powders that are sensitive?
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 03:01 PM   #6
 
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I have read that loads of H110 that do not fill or almost fill the case can have significant pressure spikes. Magnum primers are also a "must" with 110.
I do not have extensive experience with it except to know that in my Rossi the max loads are HOT and I don't like shooting them at those levels. A grain or two less so far have worked fine for me, but because of the warnings I am not going to try any lower than 14 gr.

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Old November 23rd, 2010, 03:10 PM   #7
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MidLife, Hornady does indeed measure chamber pressure ... they just don't publish it. There is an assumption with all SAAMI certified labs (which Hornady subscribes to) and that is .... no loads will be published that exceed SAAMI limits unless they are specifically identified. An example is 45 Colt loads for Ruger & T/Cs (page 911). All normal loads are in "white" and maximum loads are in red. Red means they are safely under SAAMI max pressure limits. So .... you can be sure loads listed in and SAAMI certified reloading manual will be within safe limits as long as you use the exact components in the chart.

If you want to be totally anal (like me), buy a software package called "QuickLOAD". It allows you to plot all sorts of nifty charts with nearly every powder on the market, most brands, styles and weights of bullets, in just about every cartridge ever made. It will compute muzzle velocity for any barrel length plus it will compute chamber pressure very accurately. I've found this program tracks very close with loads published in reputable reloading manuals and even comes very close to actual chronograph data. I bought the program primarily to match lead bullet hardness to chamber pressure. After I got more comfortable with it, I found I can come up with safe and useful loads that are not published in manuals. This is especially handy when I find a desirable load in a manual but don't have the exact bullet specified. The program will indicate bullet seating depth or you can do "what ifs" and make changes to see what result they have. It it a great resource for us anal reloaders.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 07:04 PM   #8
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Iowegan,
Yes, I am anal, but, also, I want to be safe.
I do homework. And, a result of my homework I find severly conflicting reloading information on the 357 magnum round specifically with the bullet I chose the HDY XTP 158gr. I have published information ranging from 12 to 17 grains for the H110 powder alone! And, published information and warnings NOT to use that same published information!
As a result, with this particular powder and bullet configuaration, it would seem a reloading forum or website would have better reloading data than the published sources, since, the variation is SO broad.
So, from my reasearch, it looks like 110/296 are so broad, that 2400 may be a better application. Yet, again, "issues" with that powder has it's own book of worms.
I think my approach will be to underload the "old" data by 10% for 110/296 with magnum primer since there doesn;'t seem to be an agreement on this powder across any of my manuals....
Recommendations seem to be a good start at 15grains. I may start at 14.5 with WSPM primer and try a few.

Last edited by MidLife; November 23rd, 2010 at 07:08 PM.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 11:33 PM   #9
 
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14.5 grains of WW-296 under just about any jacketed 158 grain bullet in 357 Magnum has been a drama-free and accurate load in a LOT of 357 Magnum revolvers for me over many years. The load is very close ballistically to the Winchester factory 357 loads my agency authorizes--"close", as in the factory loads and my reloads completely overlap when chronographed. From my S&W 686 x 4", both loads run 1200-1225 FPS. W-W cases, WSPM primers. I would estimate the loading density to be in the 90% ballpark.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 06:38 AM   #10
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Perfect!

I assume the "new" data and "old" data are not as significant with most of the cartidges since their operating pressure ranges have not changed over the years (guessing here). I assume most of my difficulties are with this particular cartridge (357 magnum) since the recommended operating pressure limits have changed in the last few decades. My dilemma is not really whether the pressure measuring methods have changed (CUP vs PSI) it's that the powder charge loadings have changed. And not by 1/10s of grains but as much as 20-25%

Hence my other thread asking about the proof pressures of the newly produced GP100. Using current published data for the 357 magnum, some listed data can acctually come very close, if not, exceed current proof loadings. I suppose you can't be too careful. I'm just poking around learning as much as I can.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 07:53 AM   #11
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MidLife, Yes, the 357 Mag has gone through some significant changes that do indeed cause confusion. First, the old testing system (crusher method) was rated in CUP so anytime you see pressure listed in CUP, it's old data. Pressure rated in psi is new data.

The 357 mag was rated at 46,000 CUP (41,500 psi) until 1995 when SAAMI was petitioned to lower it to 35,000 psi. So now we have two standards on the books, which contributes to the confusion. Ruger revolvers are strong enough to handle the older higher pressure loads without blowing up but will wear much faster than with the newer lower pressure loads .... which is exactly why the pressure standard was lowered. Some other brands of revolvers just won't hold up to 46k CUP.

The next confusion factor is the source of data. Bullet manufacturers such as Speer, Hornady, and Sierra actually pressure test loads using their own bullets in SAAMI certified labs. Their reloading data is very accurate but it assumes you are using the exact same components and bullet seating depths as listed in their manuals. Using a different brand bullet almost always means a different seating depth, which in turn means different chamber pressure. Using a standard primer or a magnum primer will also affect chamber pressure. So .... it is not unusual to see the same cartridge with the same weight bullets in different manuals with slightly different powder charges. Hornady lists velocities in even increments (50 or 100 fps) whereas Speer and Sierra list a starting charge and a max charge with the respective velocities. Sometimes you have to do a little math to get apples-to-apples comparisons. If you really do your homework, you will find the reputable manuals do agree if the primer and bullet seating depth is taken in consideration. Further, powder companies, Lyman manuals, and Lee manuals do not test their listed loads ... rather they borrow information from other sources. These sources often list "generic" loads ... meaning a specified bullet weight but no defined manufacture. This data is seldom accurate and is often from older testing methods. If you want the most current and accurate load data, Speer #14 and Hornady 7th Ed are pretty hard to beat.

Last edited by Iowegan; November 24th, 2010 at 08:00 AM.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:02 AM   #12
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Okay, thanks. That helps greatly.
Should be getting my Starline brass today so I can start loading!
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:07 AM   #13
 
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Iowegan,
It is my understanding that Lyman does their own testing. If not, what is their source for their cast bullet loads?
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Old October 21st, 2011, 05:49 PM   #14
 
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That cleared up several questions for me.
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Old October 21st, 2011, 06:06 PM   #15
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This thread is almost a year old. The concepts are still the same but Hornady has since printed a new manual (8th Edition) with even more load data.
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