Ruger Forum banner

How to get the number to justify??

5K views 30 replies 27 participants last post by  Pampurrs 
#1 ·
I have been trying to talk myself into getting setup to reload my own rounds and maybe for a few friends. Most of the equipment is on sale now and it is now affordable to buy everything needed for the bench. I have been running the numbers (NOT including the equipment) for the supplies, cases, powder, bullets and primers searching for the best prices for this stuff in affordable bulk. I'm not coming up with numbers that work out to make it worth while to even bother. The key variable is the brass! If you can source it free, like from a range then the savings is there. I'm coming up with these costs per box of 50 rounds (give or take a little) all 9mm.
NEW- brass, primer, powder, fmj rn 115gr bullet = $13.25 per 50
USED- brass (free) NEW- primer, powder, fmj rn 115gr bullet = $8.25 per 50
USED- brass (free) NEW- primer, powder, lead cast 115gr bullet = $5.75 per 50

What are you guys coming up with for cost and are the number there to justify it? I have bought new boxes of 9mm for as little as $10.99 per 50 (Armscor)
 
#3 ·
How are you getting that price? New brass / free brass? I can not get into the lower cost price point if I have to buy the brass. The brass is the key cost issue. Used "range brass" can be bought cheaper but it still pushes the cost too close to just buying new rounds. I'm trying to figure out if it's even worth it to buy the tools.
 
#4 ·
Bottom line is, you won't save any money in the short term, but you will,be able to shoot a lot more for the money expended. Also, keep in mind that ammo was pretty hard to get during the last regime in the White House. I was shooting my reloads when others weren't shooting at all.
 
#5 ·
You buy brass once, and use it multiple times. Sometimes multiple-multiple times.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
#6 ·
Also exactly as others have said. It's personal satisfaction plus you get more for your money in the long run.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
#8 ·
You're also running numbers on one of the cheapest rounds for factory ammo. I reload 13 calibers (handgun and rifle) but I don't reload 9Mm or 40S&W. I can buy it too cheaply to feel it's worth the trouble. Bigger savings in 357/44 Mag/45 Colt/ 460 and rifle rounds. But in the long run I reload because I enjoy it. As others have said, you don't save money you just shoot more.
 
#10 ·
For me hand loading is a hobby in itself,also an extension of all of my shooting related activities so cost/saving is not in the equation.
I started because I could not get 7mm 160 gr. Nosler bullets in "factory" ammunition also back then it did save a reasonable amount of money.
Depending on your usage it will in time save money and will, as others have said, allow for creating custom ammo.
 
#11 ·
I've been reloading over 40+ years and trying to justify the cost has never crossed my mind. It was the satisfaction of having consistent rounds and a relaxing "rainy day" hobby. Getting to reuse my own brass more than a few times was an extra bonus along with bragging rights with tighter groups ;).

I'd take the "reload maybe for a few friends" off the table. Waaaay too much of a liability to contend with and you could end up taking a legal beating regardless of who and what's at fault if there is a mishap.
 
#12 ·
Shooter606, As Waveform said .... 9mm is the cheapest cartridge to load so using it for a comparison with factory ammo is a worst case scenario.

I have dies for all the popular handgun cartridges and about a dozen centerfire rifle cartridges. I do load 9mm only because I have a large stash of FMJ bullets and a bucket full of once fired brass. I also load 40 S&W because I bought up supplies when factory ammo was scarce and brass was free. Once my stash is gone, I doubt if I will load either 9mm or 40 S&W.

With most other cartridges, I find I can reload for about 50% of factory ammo costs. I can also custom tailor my loads .... something you can't do with factory ammo. As an example, I like to shoot mid-level 357 Mags .... hotter than a 38 Special but lighter than a full 357 Magnum. This load is not available in factory ammo. My biggest savings is with 45 Colt ammo. I use lead bullets and emulate factory ammo for about 25% of the factory ammo cost.

My suggestion .... if all you plan to load is 9mm, save the money you would spend on equipment and supplies and buy factory ammo. Watch for sales .... lately I have seen name brand 9mm ammo go for $8.99 a box.
 
#13 ·
The only way I can come out to your numbers is buying small amounts of supplies at a time. Loading 115gr JHP, not FMJ and including the upstart cost of the brass can load them for about $7.25/50. If you're looking to save money reloading, you need to think in terms of bulk purchasing for the supplies. Example, 9mm 115gr fmj = $19/100 but only $9.80/100 when you buy 1000 which cuts price in half. Same with powder, buy 8lbs vs 1lb containers, same with primers, etc.

another bonus with buying in bulk, during the 90s and last administration, I kept right on shooting without missing a beat because I didn't have to scrounge for supplies. As of late I have seen the best prices on powder and primers that I can recall in probably 20 years.

I originally started out handloading to save on the cost of ammo and that it does especially since I cast most of my bullets but it soon became apparent that the quality of my loads were superior to what I could buy off the shelf.
 
#15 ·
I'll reiterate what others have said. 9mm is marginal on cost savings, but I still load it. I initially bought all 9mm factory ammo, shot that up, saved the brass, and reloaded from that brass.
I've found that the bullet is the most costly component of reloading. I keep an eye open for sales at Xtreme bullets, especially around the holidays. They run great sales. Buy several 1000 if possible for free shipping. 115RN are about.07-.08 each. .03 for primer, and a few cents more for powder. I'm loading for around .13 per round. That saves me about .07 per round or so. On an extended range shoot that adds up fairly quickly.
It also depends on how much you shoot. If you are burning through 500 rounds per week you need to reload. 500 rounds per month? That's up to you.
 
#16 ·
I look at it looooong-term.

Forty years ago, I bought a 'Chucker "kit", and dies for a half-dozen cartridges. I cannot say when it occurred, but I'm relatively certain the costs involved there were amortized out many years ago. The ammo I have loaded was without exception considerably less expensive than over-the-counter stuff. So I'm comfortable with believing it has been worthwhile.

Only recently have I made one exception. For the volume I shoot, I buy 9mm whenever it's cheap, as IOWEGAN suggests, even though I have the dies for it. Yes, I save the brass . . .just in case.

JMHO
:)
 
#18 ·
Cost savings is always thrown out there in discussion as a reason to reload and I've not found that to be true except for when I first started (explanation to follow) or when the round is offensively expensive say rounds like the 500 S&W magnum for example. When you get up to a couple of bucks or even five bucks per round, then reloading does indeed pay for itself and for the higher end rounds, pays for itself in short order.

Mentioned above, when I first started ammunition was expensive for me. I barely could afford the gun and now I have to pay to shoot it? Enter in a marvelous tool called the Lee Loader. Mine was in 30-30 and combined with a Lochmuller mold and a lead pot I was in business. Reclaimed bullet lead, afforded by the place we all shot was easily scavenged and remelted and poured into my 30-30 bullets and as I recall I even had a "pound" sizer for that bullet. Paired with a hammer and a flat piece of steel I was a reloading fool with that Lee loader. Not everyone's cup of tea and certainly slower that other forms of reloading, but the cost of all my equipment was around thirty bucks (back then) and after I shot some factory rounds (for the brass) I had all that I needed only buying primers and powder for the loads.

I can't say that now, certainly for the 38 special load. I could easily probably purchase commercial reloads cheaper, but it wouldn't be quite as fun after all. I moved up to a single stage press, but I still cast my own bullets and I enjoy reloading as a hobby in and of itself. Done that way you don't have to "Run the Numbers", just don't load for your buddies. Too much time involved and you don't have the liability to worry about either. Someone only has to do something stupid once with one of YOUR rounds to find yourself in a courtroom explaining just who gave you your knowledge on how a round should be made. A loosing battle to be sure. Smithy.
 
#20 ·
You can't SAVE money reloading. That's a lie we keep telling our wives.
You can shoot more for the money you have by reloading your empty brass cases many times. The real cost is the brass case , next is the bullet .
Reloaders do it because we enjoy the hobby. We can make anything we want/need , things not found on any dealers shelf. Same reason we cast bullets , make whatever you want. Not dependent on a manufacturer to make it or dealer to stock it.
Reloaders and casters are the masters of their own ammo supply ! Kind of empowering to be able to do that .
Gary
 
#22 ·
I like that ^^

Most of my equipment was purchased 30+ years ago. My first cartridges were .45 ACP, 7mm-08 Rem, and .357 Mag/.38 Spl. My .45 rounds were about the same cost as cheap plinking ammo, but I found they performed better. 30 years ago, there was only one factory loading (Remington 140 gr) for 7mm-08, so I handloaded for my new rifle to get the best performance out of it. When I got the .357, I was able to score a bunch of near-free .38 Spl cases and good bulk-priced cast .358 bullets, so that made for reasonably priced .38 paper punching rounds for me. The 9mm was next. Bulk bullets and a few hundred cases made for some decent 9mm loads, but I was soon '9 less' for over seven years. After buying another new 9-gun, a friend who shot a ton of 9mm gave me 1K+ once-fired cases, which jump-started my 9mm loading again. Since then, I've added three more cartridges (.44 Mag/Spl, .30-06, and .223), three blackpowder muzzleloaders, and have gotten into bullet/ball casting with hundreds of pounds of free wheelweights and linotype. I can tell you that handloading for .44 Mag is worth it to me, in terms of being able to customize plinking and hunting loads, and shoot many more rounds for the same cost, compared to factory rounds.

If I only had a small inventory of 9mm handguns, with little or no intention of getting any other handgun or rifle calibers, I would probably be hesitant about investing in a complete loading setup for only 9mm. There are some pretty good prices these days on 1000-5000 round cases of 9mm ammo. The same goes if I just had one centerfire hunting rifle to feed. There is a plethora of great premium hunting rounds and match loads available from the ammo manufacturers these days.

For me, I greatly enjoy the ability to produce my own ammo when and how I want it.
 
#21 ·
Before I started off reloading, I did the same thing. I had spreadsheets all over the place, that I created to compare costs, predict break even points, etc. Everyone told me I was wasting my time with that line of thinking, and to just get into it and enjoy it.

Soon after I had invested several hundred dollars on equipment, I discovered that the "break even" point is a moving target. Now, I don't much care if I ever break even, or if I ever actually save any money. I love reloading, and love the fact that I can go the range and shoot a few hundred rounds without worrying about how much money I'm burning through the barrel. it's a great hobby, very relaxing, and very theraputic. And there's a great deal of satisfaction in shooting rounds that I made.

I started loading 38 special and 357 magnum, and then added 9mm. I agree with what others have said about 9mm being too inexpensive to justify the investment in equipment, but since I've already made the investment, I am able to load my 9mm cheaper than buying it retail (re-using my brass, of course).
 
#23 ·
Think of the start up cost as a investment.
I've been loading for many years and cast my boolets. My ammo runs me anywhere from $5.00 per box of 50 to $7.50 for my hand guns. Depends if I use free wheel weights or buy some Lyman #2 I only buy bullets for my riffles. I haven't bought but a couple box of factory ammo in years, it kinda turn my stomach when I did, and I can't remember the last time I bought a box of ammo for a riffle.
And you can customize your loads for your shooters.
 
#25 ·
I can load 9mm 115 FMJ gr ammo much less than buying new or remanufactured. Buying bullets in bulk, 2000 or more at a time, primers (5000) and powder (8lb) in bulk also really reduces the costs.

Using picked up range brass which is free except for the cleaning required, I load 9mm for $6.50 a box.

I picked up my range brass at 2 different public ranges in my area. I made one trip to each range during the middle of the week, near mid day, when I expected low use. I picked up all my back, knees and hands could endure.

After cleaning and sorting out mis-picked aluminum and steel cases, I ended up with over 40 lbs. of useable brass. This equates to around 8,000 cases. Guess I have enough 9 mm brass to last a LONG time. And due to the quantity I have, I don't mind losing a couple each time out.

Running the brass through my Lyman Tumbler after a quick wash and dry in the sun, I fill the Lee Pro 1000 and have at it.

Now if I wanted to shoot plated or cast bullets, I could lower my costs a bit more.
 
#26 ·
606, everybody today is cost cutting. I'll echo all the folks here. I did it a little different. Just like you, I did the math and began to look around. Over the course of 6 or 8 months, I went to all the pawn shops, gun shops, gun shows and estate and yard sales I could looking for good used equipment. Being diligent, I spent only $25 on a Lyman turret press, $10-balance scale, $55- powder measure, bullet puller, calipers and brass/rock tumbler. Quite the haul to start. Bought new dies ($20)for the .45 and ($15) for an older set of Pacific .308 dies. Found a gun shop going out of business and paid a guy $20 for 1000 rounds of reloaded 9x21 ammo. I pulled the bullets, tossed the powder, shaved the brass 2mm and had 1000 pieces of primed brass, bullets to go in them and added VihtaVouri 3N37 powder and shot all 20 boxes for $17... I don't load hot, so I get about 6 reloads out of my cases. I just closely inspect them before reusing and toss any funky cases or split lips. You gradually pick up additional equipment as needed and care for whatcha got. It is a long game, but gives you a much greater sense of control knowing you can make it if necessary. You understand sooo much more about the entire shooting sport when you do . I guarantee you won't regret it if you do...
 
#27 ·
You do realize the cases will be used many many times, so their cost is almost nothing unless you lose them all.
If you are happy with junk ammo, fine.
$11/50 is 22 cents/round.
So, as far as I am concerned, cost of the case is zero.
Bullets: Fantastic Zero 115gn FMJ for $273/3000 or 9.1 cents/round.
Primers: 3 cents/round
Powder: Let's use Power Pistol, since I load for accuracy and not just to put bullets down range. $69.50/4# or $17.375/# or $0.002482/grain times 6 grains is $0.0149/round.
So, I get 9.1 + 3 + 1.5 = 13.6 cents/round, for a premium round of ammunition that is comparable to any factory round. Then, there are cast bullets and then there is casting your own...
 
#28 ·
I want to know how he gets free of the cats...

Great picture!
That's hilarious Aqualung! My 2 cats don't get up on the bench but if I say (in a deep voice)
Ruger556 or Laser show, they are on me like I was a piece of tuna...waiting for me to give them their highlight of the day in laser playtime. They do love to sniff every gun and bullet I show them too!
 
#29 ·
I reload lead 147 gr.(that's what my Beretta likes) using range scrounged brass for about $6 for 50 rnds. But I agree with others; if 9mm is all you're going to reload, it will take you along time to save what you spend on equipment. But if you want to reload than go a head, who knows, you might find a couple other calibers to reload for.
 
#30 · (Edited)
WOW, this is a tough one.

There is a cost savings but as Pam stated, it can be a moving target.

I've been reloading for decades and the situation has changed considerably. There was a time when you could reload shotgun shells and see a huge reduction in cost but that is no longer true. With some light target loads you can realize a savings after a few cycles with the same hull but it's hardly worth it. I still reload shotshells but it's more for the convenience of having what I want on hand. I'm not sure I would get into shotshell reloading these days if I didn't already have the equipment.

Metallic cartridge reloading is all over the map. Some cartridges you can realize a savings and some barely break even. Years ago, the first time you reloaded a casing you saw a substantial savings. Components are far more expensive than they were even 15 years ago. The only time I will purchase brass is when the price is low enough that the completed round is less than purchasing factory ammo. Otherwise, I just buy factory ammo and recover the spent casings. That being said, I still occasionally purchase bulk quantities of once fired casings. Like Iowegan, I reload some cartridges that either are not available as factory loadings or are so expensive that they are not worth buying as factory loaded cartridges (44 "Skeeter" equivalent loads and 38 Special WC come to mind). Currently 9mm is probably the least attractive cartridge to reload but 20 years ago 9mm casings were free or almost free, 500 FMJ bullets ran about the cost of 200 factory rounds and the primers and powder came out to pennies per round.
38 Special continues to be cost effective to reload and the casings last for a lot of cycles if you know what you're doing.

There ARE savings to be realized with some rifle cartridges and I can shrink group sizes with rifle handloads.

There was a time when lead was plentiful and cheap. There was a time when 8 pounds of pistol/shotgun powder wasn't a major purchase. There was a time when a sleeve of 5000 primers was $65 and there was no hazmat fee. Those days are over.

If I were to include the cost of the equipment into the cost of the completed round, I would break even somewhere around 150 years after my death :rolleyes: !! Maybe 200 years if I include the cost of gear that I've replaced :eek:

SO ........some of us started reloading when it made good economic sense to do so and continued to reload despite the reductions in savings.
Some of us reload because we enjoy the hobby.
Some of us reload because we can make something that we can't easily purchase.
Some of us reload because it gives us a sense of independence , even if that sense of independence is a bit artificial.
Some of us reload because every now and then, there is still a slight savings to be had.

Pick your justification :D and enjoy life !
 
#31 ·
SO ........some of us started reloading when it made good economic sense to do so and continued to reload despite the reductions in savings.
Some of us reload because we enjoy the hobby.
Some of us reload because we can make something that we can't easily purchase.
Some of us reload because it gives us a sense of independence , even if that sense of independence is a bit artificial.
Some of us reload because every now and then, there is still a slight savings to be had.

Pick your justification :D and enjoy life !
P&P, very accurate, and succinctly stated!:cool:

Pam
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top