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Lead 'management' for chamber, barrel

This is a discussion on Lead 'management' for chamber, barrel within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Commo, "Hard cast" bullets are typically BHN 20~22. That would mean your chamber pressure would have to be at least 28,000 psi to match bullet ...


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Old February 21st, 2017, 06:45 AM   #16
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Commo, "Hard cast" bullets are typically BHN 20~22. That would mean your chamber pressure would have to be at least 28,000 psi to match bullet hardness. This is way too high .... 7k psi over SAAMI max.

The suggestion to use at least 5.1 gr of Tite Group was strictly to help make the loads burn cleaner .... not to match chamber pressure so its no wonder why the loads still fouled badly. Once you get softer BHN 12 bullets, your leading problems should go away. If you change to W-231, I would highly recommend a power charge of 6.0 gr .... which produces about 15k psi with a 200gr LSWC. Not only will it match pressure quite well, it will also burn clean.



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Old February 21st, 2017, 08:02 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Commo, "Hard cast" bullets are typically BHN 20~22. That would mean your chamber pressure would have to be at least 28,000 psi to match bullet hardness. This is way too high .... 7k psi over SAAMI max.

The suggestion to use at least 5.1 gr of Tite Group was strictly to help make the loads burn cleaner .... not to match chamber pressure so its no wonder why the loads still fouled badly. Once you get softer BHN 12 bullets, your leading problems should go away. If you change to W-231, I would highly recommend a power charge of 6.0 gr .... which produces about 15k psi with a 200gr LSWC. Not only will it match pressure quite well, it will also burn clean.
Yes, understood on the cleaner burn pressure advice -- I knew the leading would linger til I get the softer bullets loaded...

So far the only pistol powders I have ever used are Tite Group and Power Pistol -- thought I'd try the W231 (actually HP-38) as I see it mentioned frequently..other powder advice very welcome..

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Old February 21st, 2017, 04:04 PM   #18
 
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>A diameter too small or an alloy too hard will allow high pressure gas to leak past the bullet

If they say it is a hard alloy, in today's world that means a BHN of 18-22--way harder than needed for .45 auto

Crimp is simply not a major player, unless you are swaging the bullet diameter down. Have you pulled any seated/crimped bullets and measure the diameter? Have you verified that the bullet really are 0.452"?
You really should slug your barrel with a 0.456" or larger slug.
If you want to try, I found that when the over-hard commercial bullets lead my barrel, I simply give them a light tumble lube in Lee Liquid Alox and the leading is eliminated.
I put 200-500 bullets in a glass casserole pan and squirt a "Z" over the bullets and shuffle/rotate the bullets for 30-60 seconds. Then I look them over to be sure all are shiny/wet looking and, if so, pour them out on a wax paper or aluminum foil surface and let the dry overnight. You should not be able to see the LLA at all, as very little is needed.
Personally, you might want to buy a sample pack of coated cast bullets and see how they do--but, again, seat and crimp a bullet and compare it to the before measurements.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:29 AM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noylj View Post
>If they say it is a hard alloy, in today's world that means a BHN of 18-22--way harder than needed for .45 auto
As mentioned above I have indeed ordered a sample pack of BHN 12 Hi-Tek coated 200gr SWC from Missouri Bullets -- and they just arrived today.

So I will move to the softer bullet and report back..

I doubt I will jump through a lot of hoops to make the hard Wilson Combat bullets work in my pistol -- but if I chose to coat them with the Lee Liquid Alox would that be advisable if they're already lubed? They have a groove that is filled with blue wax and they feel 'waxy' overall..

thanks,

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Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:52 AM   #20
 
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Softly softly...

OK, I loaded up 62 of the Missouri Bullet Company's Hi-Tek-coated 12BHN 200gr SWCs with 6.0gr of HP-38 powder this afternoon. I'm going to give the CCI 300 primer a try so I switched over for this load. COL is 1.25" and I backed the crimp off a bit to .471". They all plunked both in my Ruger's barrel and in my EGW .45ACP chamber checker.

But since I had some Federal 150s in the Dillon I first loaded a dozen with them, so I'll chrono both to see if there's much difference between primers with this load..

My wife says they look like little lipsticks...they're sort of a root beer color.



I'll either get out this evening or tomorrow afternoon to shoot a bit...with the weird warm weather we're having here in Michigan I could actually shoot outdoors if I wait until tomorrow..

Thanks so much to Iowegan and others who commented -- I'm looking forward to trying these softer bullets..

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Old February 22nd, 2017, 03:50 PM   #21
 
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Was unable to access your link to loading lead bullets for revolvers? Any ideas?
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 04:33 PM   #22
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephens View Post
Was unable to access your link to loading lead bullets for revolvers? Any ideas?
I think a new forum member has to accumulate 10 or so posts before gaining some priviledges, including posting pictures, URLs and apparently download permissions..

Perhaps a PM to Iowegan will get it directly from him? Or you could quickly post a bunch of two-word posts and make the 10-post threshold...

The article is definitely worth it...

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Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:50 PM   #23
 
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>if I chose to coat them with the Lee Liquid Alox would that be advisable if they're already lubed?

When I wrote "I found that when the over-hard commercial bullets lead my barrel, I simply give them a light tumble lube in Lee Liquid Alox and the leading is eliminated," I was talking about bullets already lubed. The LLA really helps to prevent gas cutting by NOT burning away and coating the lead going down the barrel.
Hope you have success.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 02:10 PM   #24
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noylj View Post
>if I chose to coat them with the Lee Liquid Alox would that be advisable if they're already lubed?

When I wrote "I found that when the over-hard commercial bullets lead my barrel, I simply give them a light tumble lube in Lee Liquid Alox and the leading is eliminated," I was talking about bullets already lubed. The LLA really helps to prevent gas cutting by NOT burning away and coating the lead going down the barrel.
Hope you have success.
Noylj, thanks for all your help with this issue..I'll have to decide if I want to take the time to try to make my remaining cache of the hard cast bullets work in my pistol..most likely I'll move on to the softer coated bullets and call it lesson learned...

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Old February 23rd, 2017, 02:30 PM   #25
 
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Obturation success!

Well, I shot 60 of the Missouri Bullets 12BHN 200gr SWC bullets today over 6gr of HP-38 and I think I can declare victory over the lead I've been seeing in my Ruger .45ACP LW Commander...

The pistol was quite easy to clean this evening and no evidence of lead in the chamber or barrel.

The otherwise-identical CCI and Federal primer loads did chrono at different speeds btw --

Fed 150 (12 rounds) Avg = 909fps, ES = 45, SD = 15.7
CCI 300 (12 rounds) Avg = 938fps, ES = 74, SD = 16.8

The only glitch may relate to my opening up the crimp -- I did have two rounds Fail To Chamber, and each time it was the second round of the magazine, strangely..the round got stuck just past the crimp as it entered the chamber. They all chambered and shot when I reloaded the magazine and ran them again.

My other bullets have been crimped about 2, sometimes 3 thousandths tighter..I'll have to experiment with that. (Each stoppage occurred in a Wilson 47D magazine btw.)

Looks like I'll be ordering in a 1000 of the Missouri Bullet SWCs..

Thanks again to Iowegan and others for their advice on this issue..

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Old February 23rd, 2017, 03:34 PM   #26
 
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Just a thought . . .

When using bullets of the same profile as the MBC ones shown, I have had the occasional failure to chamber and I attribute it to the small amount of bullet shoulder extending beyond the case mouth. When I have seated the bullets so the shoulder is essentially even with the case mouth this doesn't seem to happen.

I'm not loading close to max, so I don't think the small amount of decrease in OAL matters as far as pressure is concerned.

I'm not 100% sure my "fix" actually changed anything, but just thought I'd throw this out there.

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Old February 23rd, 2017, 04:41 PM   #27
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Commo, Good for you!!! Glad you got the bore leading under control. As for crimp .... my personal policy is to use a bit more crimp than what you show in post # 20. It helps keep ES and SD in low numbers plus it helps with feeding. My first goal with all ammo is reliability and my second is accuracy. If the gun fails to feed or operate, accuracy doesn't matter.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 06:50 AM   #28
 
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The crimp in the pic is the widest I've tried and is a fair amount over the recommended crimps I've used til now that settle in around .4695" -- seems like decreasing the crimp back to what I was using will help the feed issue and not hurt the bullet as far as being too tight..

I certainly agree that reliability trumps accuracy!

Thanks again,

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Old February 24th, 2017, 07:18 AM   #29
 
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Glad the softer MBC coated bullets work for you...I've been swearing by them for a long time...As I said I shoot the LRNFP bullet because I think for overall feeding in my CZ they might be a bit more reliable...never had an issue but my old CZ with a different feed ramp was picky..this new CZ seems to eat about anything..I'm a big fan of the MBC stuff...glad you found it.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 09:56 AM   #30
 
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SWC v LRNFP

Quote:
Originally Posted by opos View Post
Glad the softer MBC coated bullets work for you...I've been swearing by them for a long time...As I said I shoot the LRNFP bullet because I think for overall feeding in my CZ they might be a bit more reliable.....I'm a big fan of the MBC stuff...glad you found it.
Opos,

Thanks, which MBC LRNFP are you using? That might be an alternative for me if I find there's some reliability issue with the SWCs in my pistol..

I am happy with the Precision Delta 230gr FMJ-RN bullets I am using so am most interested in a 200gr alternative from MBC...thoughts?

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