f> To size or not to size cast bullets? - Ruger Forum

Ruger Forum

To size or not to size cast bullets?

This is a discussion on To size or not to size cast bullets? within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Hi guys, I bought a 429244 mold for my 44 magnum. They've come out pretty good so far, variance is about 5 grns difference per ...


Go Back   Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Reloading

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old February 14th, 2017, 10:00 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: St Petersburg
Posts: 83
Gehlsurf is on a distinguished road
Hi guys, I bought a 429244 mold for my 44 magnum. They've come out pretty good so far, variance is about 5 grns difference per bullet. I followed the instructions to load a dummy round to make sure it fits my guns chambers, and they do, drop right in.

But they come out .435, and the hornady and plated bullets I have are exact .430, should I resize these? Resized they come out the .430 exact. The instructions say that resized obviously makes for a more consistent size (maybe weight, too?), therefore gaining accuracy. ANYbody else notice this to be true?

I will be running thsee at about 1100 fps, no gas check. The recipes I have do not call for a gas check, and will be using Alox. If resized, Alox again, I'm paranoid about the leading issue.

I would like to slug the bore, but how do you get a soft lead bullet down the barrel with the SRH frame in the way? Something I'm missing?




Last edited by Gehlsurf; February 14th, 2017 at 10:02 AM.
Gehlsurf is offline  
Advertisements
Old February 14th, 2017, 10:27 AM   #2
 
dV8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: W.MI
Posts: 2,245
dV8r is just really nicedV8r is just really nicedV8r is just really nicedV8r is just really nice
Yes, resize to get the best consistency and concentrically.
Very unlikely to do anything to the weight, in fact if it does I would think something amiss.
I would test a few rounds for accuracy before slugging.
If needed think about a very soft 99.9% lead bullet undersized then drop down the barrel on top of a short brass rod** held in place by a brass block against the frame, tap it down with a second brass rod from the muzzle end then push it out.

** or use several pieces of brass rod about 1/4" shorter than the cylinder.
dV8r is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #3
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: St Petersburg
Posts: 83
Gehlsurf is on a distinguished road
Oh! From the muzzle end! I always see the pics showing it being tapped out the muzzle when slugging, I didnt think it would make a difference, but I've made mistakes that way before, haha. Slugging doesn't sound fun, sounds frustrating, really, haha. So I'll take your advice to test accuracy first. Thanks!!
Gehlsurf is offline  
 
Old February 14th, 2017, 11:50 AM   #4
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N. Calif
Posts: 2,401
firescout will become famous soon enough
For sizing and shooting cast bullets in a revolver, an important thing to know is the the cylinder chamber throat diameters. Many revolvers have slight differences among the individual throats, and a too-small or too-large throat (compared with bore size) can cause problems with cast bullets of the incorrect size.
firescout is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 12:34 PM   #5
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: St Petersburg
Posts: 83
Gehlsurf is on a distinguished road
Ok, should I use my calipers to check the size of the throats? Ideally, wold bullet match the size of the throat exactly?
Gehlsurf is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 02:20 PM   #6
 
marlin39a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Paulden, Arizona
Posts: 264
marlin39a is on a distinguished road
I have that mold. I size and lube them with carnauba red in my heated Lyman 450. They shoot great in my 44 spl and 44 mags. And I do gas check them.
marlin39a is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 02:54 PM   #7
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,009
Petrol and Powder has a spectacular aura aboutPetrol and Powder has a spectacular aura about
At .435" for a 44 (.429") I would size those bullets.

Unless you have both oversized throats and an oversized bore, you'll probably get much better accuracy (and maybe less leading) if you size them closer to .430". If the throats are smaller than the bore the bullets will be sized down by the time they reach the barrel anyway .

In a perfect world you would slug your throats and slug your barrel to determine the diameters. Ideally the throats would be a little larger than the groove diameter of the bore. You would then size your bullets to match the throats.

Also, using calipers to measure diameters isn't the best way to get an accurate measurement. A micrometer is a better tool. You can get pretty close with calipers but a micrometer is really the tool you want.

Good Luck
Petrol and Powder is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 09:28 PM   #8
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N. Calif
Posts: 2,401
firescout will become famous soon enough
Two good methods for measuring revolver cylinder throats: pin gauges or mic-ed bullets.

A pin gauge is a precision ground, short metal dowel of a specific diameter. For a .44 Mag revolver, pin gauges in 0.429, 0.430, and 0.431 inches are the main sizes needed. Some .44 Mag cylinder throats may take an 0.432 in. or larger gauge, though. It is basically a go/no-go measurement. If an 0.429 in. pin gauge loosely fits in the throat, you then try an 0.430, and so on. If an 0.430 gauge fits, but an 0.431 doesn't, then 0.430 in. is the nominal throat diameter. You can also get a pin gauge in 0.4305 in. diameter, for extremely precise measuring of the throat. Do note that some cylinders may have one or more throats of a different diameter than the rest, or one or more may not be perfectly round. Reaming all the throats to one, perfectly round diameter is the best solution for varying throat diameters.

For the bullet method, use micrometer-verified diameter, top-quality bullets inserted in the chamber throats to gauge the throat diameter. This is somewhat of a less precise method of measuring, but it can reveal a too tight or too loose throat, compared to the rest.

Last edited by firescout; February 14th, 2017 at 09:43 PM.
firescout is offline  
Old February 15th, 2017, 04:55 AM   #9
 
Stubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Catskill Mountains, NY
Posts: 37
Stubert is on a distinguished road
At only 1.5 thou. over bore, and they fit the chambers without sizing I would shoot them.I would run them through a .431 sizer just to lube.
Stubert is offline  
Old February 15th, 2017, 05:19 AM   #10
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,187
Ale-8(1) will become famous soon enough
Might want to check this article by IOWEGAN . . .

http://rugerforum.net/library/19869-...revolvers.html

And perhaps this thread . . .

RugerForum.com ? View topic - 44 special what diameter cast bullets?


Last edited by Ale-8(1); February 15th, 2017 at 05:23 AM.
Ale-8(1) is offline  
Old February 15th, 2017, 07:37 PM   #11
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,009
Petrol and Powder has a spectacular aura aboutPetrol and Powder has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubert View Post
At only 1.5 thou. over bore, and they fit the chambers without sizing I would shoot them.I would run them through a .431 sizer just to lube.
might want to check your math there.

.435" vs .430" is a difference of 5/1000 not 1.5/1000.

In any event, a bullet that is forced through a throat that is smaller than the bullet started is going to get sized down by that tight throat. By the time the bullet reaches the barrel it's going to be whatever diameter that throat was.
Petrol and Powder is offline  
Old February 16th, 2017, 06:07 AM   #12
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: St Petersburg
Posts: 83
Gehlsurf is on a distinguished road
Well, I sized them, and going to the range today. I pushed some if the bullets though the throat just out of curiosity, and they stuck slightly. Hornady and plated slid right through, but I think the Alox was sticking a tad as well.

Thanks for the replies!! And the lowegan (spelling?) Write up was excellent and very informative. I mixed my own lead for these bullets and tested with a Lee tester. Running about 22 BHN, for a recipe that calls for Linotype lead. And I matched THE PSI to the recipes CUP and seems I got a perfect bullet to pressure match!!!

I mixed some old magnum chilled lead (5 lbs)with 2' of the thicker lead free solder, took a couple tries to get the right BHN, but works. If you do this, water quench the bullets, they will come out around 15 BHN, after 24 hours, 21 BHN, after 3 days 22 BHN, all give or take a 1/2 BHN.

Now it's time to go and see the results!!!
Gehlsurf is offline  
Old February 16th, 2017, 08:43 AM   #13
 
Stubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Catskill Mountains, NY
Posts: 37
Stubert is on a distinguished road
You don't need bullets that hard for a revolver if they fit and your lube is good. Save the lino for rifles. I use 15 bhn for all my handgun loads and alot of rifle loads. All my rifle loads are gas checked and are under 1800 fps with zero leading.
Stubert is offline  
Old February 16th, 2017, 09:30 AM   #14
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 186
gwpercle is on a distinguished road
The #429244 is designed and cut for a gas check , shooting it at the velocity you mentioned with out a GC just about guarantees leading and inaccuracy.
If you are paranoid about leading, put a check on that bullet.
I have never had a gas check designed bullet shoot worse or start leading when one is used.
If you don't want to check them get the velocity down to 800-900 fps , more than that and the pesky lead starts to show itself.
I size and lube all my cast bullets, Lee Liquid Alox is OK for lower velocities , but there are much better lubes for higher velocities.
Watch the hardness in revolver rounds , too hard can actually cause leading if the bullet is too small.
I use lead mixed with Wheel weights 50 / 50 mix , this works better than straight wheel weights.
Gary

Last edited by gwpercle; February 16th, 2017 at 09:34 AM.
gwpercle is offline  
Old February 16th, 2017, 09:49 AM   #15
mdi
 
mdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orygun
Posts: 155
mdi is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gehlsurf View Post
Ok, should I use my calipers to check the size of the throats? Ideally, wold bullet match the size of the throat exactly?
Calipers, by their jaw design will not give an accurate measurement of an ID of a small hole. You can slug the throats just like you slugged the barrel, drive a soft lead slut through the cylinder and measure it. I use the exact dimension of the cylinder throat to size my cast bullets (my .44s run .431" for the throats, so I size all my cast bullets to .431", my 429244 and 429421). Any larger and the throats just size the bullets down and smaller than throats may cause leading. This works on my 3, .44 Magnums and 3, 38 Specials, and one .357 Magnum...

For a lot of good info from casters with many years of experience, go here, everything one would want to know about boolit casting; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

Last edited by mdi; February 16th, 2017 at 09:52 AM.
mdi is online now  
Reply

  Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Reloading

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Ruger Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recoil of full size .45 vs mid-size .45? Gun Fun Pistols & Revolvers 12 June 7th, 2015 07:46 AM
Laser Cast Bullets = Lead Bullets rmichael63 Reloading 8 March 6th, 2014 06:03 AM
Size, Trim, and then Size again? Nick0410 Reloading 11 June 7th, 2012 01:48 PM
Ruger Buckeye 38-40 cast bullet size & type? Dave King Reloading 0 May 25th, 2009 10:38 AM
Cast Bullets LongPoint Reloading 9 September 28th, 2008 06:13 PM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List
Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Ruger Forum. All rights reserved.
Ruger Forum is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT.