f> Duplicating Winchester X223R2 cartridge - Ruger Forum

Ruger Forum

Duplicating Winchester X223R2 cartridge

This is a discussion on Duplicating Winchester X223R2 cartridge within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Do any of you guys happen to have a reference as to what powder/weight that Winchester is using in these? http://www.winchester.com/Products/r...es/X223R2.aspx I've got a bunch ...


Go Back   Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Reloading

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old January 26th, 2017, 10:31 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Georgia, TN
Posts: 208
JRobyn is on a distinguished road
Duplicating Winchester X223R2 cartridge

Do any of you guys happen to have a reference as to what powder/weight that Winchester is using in these? http://www.winchester.com/Products/r...es/X223R2.aspx

I've got a bunch of these bullets and would like to follow Iowegan's advice and try to as closely match a tried and true factory load as possible rather than experiment around with potentially dozens of different powders/weight combinations.



JRobyn is offline  
Advertisements
Old January 26th, 2017, 11:07 AM   #2
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
 
Iowegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CB, IA
Posts: 11,517
Iowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to all

Awards Showcase

The specs for this load is: 64gr bullet, 3020 fps from a 24" barrel. 25gr of Varget will get you very close to the Winchester factory load and should be very accurate.
Iowegan is offline  
Old January 27th, 2017, 09:26 AM   #3
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Georgia, TN
Posts: 208
JRobyn is on a distinguished road
Thanks Iowegan. Being a Winchester cartridge, I assume they use WSR primers. Does your source include the OAL?
JRobyn is offline  
 
Old January 28th, 2017, 09:12 PM   #4
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
 
Iowegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CB, IA
Posts: 11,517
Iowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to all

Awards Showcase

The bullet should be a 64gr lead tip metal jacket "Power Point" with a cannelure. Seat the bullet where the case mouth is centered on the cannelure then apply a modest crimp. The bullet length is .689" with a BC of .234 COL is not listed.
Iowegan is offline  
Old February 13th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #5
 
SirRuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 44
SirRuger is on a distinguished road
Jrobyn: I have the Winchester reloading Manual from 2003 and it says for the 64 Gr Power Point 25.0 Grs of W748 for 2970 FPS. The hodgdon site says 25.0 Grs of W748 using Winchester Brass & SRP's OAL is 2.200 from a 24 inch barrel is 2970 FPS using a 63 Gr Sierra.

Last edited by SirRuger; February 13th, 2017 at 12:00 PM.
SirRuger is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 01:23 PM   #6
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Georgia, TN
Posts: 208
JRobyn is on a distinguished road
Thanks guys! Looks like I need some W748 instead of that CFE223 I bought!
JRobyn is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #7
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
 
Iowegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CB, IA
Posts: 11,517
Iowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to all

Awards Showcase

JRobyn, Don't be so eager to go with W-748. It is an excellent ball powder that meters great but it is NOT the same exact powder used in Winchester factory loads. Fact is, you can't buy the same powder that ammo manufacturers use because it is specially formulated for their specific application. Similar powders are known as "canister grade". Many reloading manuals use small rifle magnum primers with 748 because it is hard to ignite .... especially in colder climates. Further, 748 has been around for decades and is not formulated to compensate for temperature. Newer powder such as Varget are temperature compensated. CFE223 is also a ball powder that meters just as well as 748. It is not temperature compensated but for your climate, it should work just fine.

The concept of matching factory specs is primarily to end up with the same velocity as factory ammo when using the same bullet weight. You even have the same bullets so basically, any powder that will produce 3020 fps with your 64 gr bullets should do a good job of emulating factory X223R2 Winchester ammo. For CFE223, that would be about 26gr.
Iowegan is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 02:23 PM   #8
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: PA
Posts: 247
GONRA is on a distinguished road
As far as GONRA knows, small rifle MAGNUM primers must be used in
FULL POWER .223 Remington/5.56x45mm ammo.

Remington 7 1/2 and CCI Military primers, maybe others (?) are Just Fine.

Would be suprised if anything labeled "Small Rifle" was truly appropriate.
(Watch for pin point firing pin dent leaks or worse....)

WSR primer fans - let us know if they verk OK in FULL POWER loads.

Last edited by GONRA; February 15th, 2017 at 02:45 PM.
GONRA is offline  
Old February 14th, 2017, 09:23 PM   #9
Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
 
Iowegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CB, IA
Posts: 11,517
Iowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to allIowegan is a name known to all

Awards Showcase

GONRA, Not true! Standard small rifle primers are used in many rifle cartridges that are the same or higher pressure than 223 Rem. The issue with AR-15s is more about the older style floating firing pins having enough momentum to detonate a primer from just having the bolt slam shut (slam fire). CCI 41 primers were specifically designed to prevent slam fires and have less sensitive cups but they are NOT magnum rated.

Here what three of my reloading manuals specify:
Hornady 10th Ed: Winchester WSR (standard) for all rifle loads, Remington 7 1/2 (magnum) for T/C Contender.
Speer #14: CCI 400 (standard) for most loads, CCI 450 (magnum) for some hard to ignite powders such as Win 748.
Nosler #7: Remington 7 1/2 (magnum) for all rifle loads.

I have been using Winchester WSR primers in my 223 Rems for at least 25 years and many thousands of rounds. Never had a slam fire in any AR. I load my 223 Rem 55gr loads with 26.5gr of Varget, which produces nearly identical velocity as standard 223 Rem factory ammo with 55 gr bullets .... right at 3240 fps. Never a problem of any kind and I get superb accuracy.
Iowegan is offline  
Old February 15th, 2017, 08:28 AM   #10
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: virginia
Posts: 41
vaguru is on a distinguished road
I agree with Iowegan on this. Varget is my powder of choice, and no problem with WSR primers in any 223 load I have used. Matter of fact, WSR was my primer of choice for competition, though I also have some great loads with Rem 7 1/2 primers.

Shooting DCM and NRA High Power competition, I have used both WW748 and Varget with 69, 75, and 80 gr bullets. In the heat at Camp Perry during the summer, Varget was definitely more stable, and as a side benefit, gave about 100 fps more safely.
vaguru is offline  
Old February 16th, 2017, 07:41 AM   #11
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: WV USA
Posts: 19
Rick R2 is on a distinguished road
I'd agree with Iowegan on most everything above. You as a reloader can't buy the same powder that the factory uses. The buy bulk lots of powder then test for burn rate. Once that's established they produce ammo using data developed for that batch of powder. Remember that most powders are sold thru Hodgdon's, that includes IMR and Winchester and a large percentage of those are manufactured in Australia. IOW, Winchester buys their powder from Hodgdon.

Varget is a great powder for a lot of different cartridges, meters better than older powders did, is temperature insensitive, and commonly available. 25 grains is what I use with a similar bullet, the trick with Varget is to use a slightly compressed load for best accuracy.

A couple years ago a fellow on the Internet turned me on to IMR 8208XBR. It's a "stick" powder but the sticks are cut short so it meters like ball. A bit faster than Varget it works well with .223/5.56 loadings with heavier bullets. And it's supposed to be temperature insensitive (I live where the temps thru the year can be below freezing during hunting season and around 100 during the summers, so I pay note of that).

I've tried CFE223 and it's as good or better than W748 as far as I can see. I got really good accuracy with some PPU 62gr fmj bulk bullets and CFE223 that I assembled as blasting ammo without any special care like I take with my 69gr or 77gr SMK loads.

I've used Winchester primers, CCI standard, magnum, BR4 and #41 military primers. They all work with any of the above primers. For some reason my .300Blk likes the #41 best but the .223s are less picky. Lately I've been using the Sellier and Belliot primers that Cabela's has been selling for $25/1,000 and they are great primers for making good accurate loads.
Rick R2 is offline  
Old February 17th, 2017, 05:10 PM   #12
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Georgia, TN
Posts: 208
JRobyn is on a distinguished road
I've already got Winchester primers on hand, and have both Varget and CFE223 also. I may experiment some with both powders.
JRobyn is offline  
Reply

  Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Reloading

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Ruger Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Allen Company Denali Cartridge Neoprene Sling with Rifle Cartridge Lo...-$16.42 Gundealhound Gun Deal Hound 0 January 4th, 2016 01:34 PM
1895 Winchester (Miroku) in .270 Winchester sav250 Rifles 7 October 11th, 2014 05:51 AM
Duplicating the M855 nato .223 round Jim02ss Reloading 12 July 14th, 2013 04:58 PM
? about duplicating factory SD ammo. moakes58 Reloading 10 May 22nd, 2013 09:28 PM
What cartridge? Eagleye Ruger Semi-Auto 4 January 22nd, 2012 05:33 AM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List
Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Ruger Forum. All rights reserved.
Ruger Forum is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT.